#62777 - 10/22/09 09:03 PM
Women will be saved through childbearing
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Disciple
Registered: 09/29/99
Posts: 11990
Loc: Texas
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 Melanie brought up this subject over the dinner table tonight, or at least a portion related to it: 1 Timothy 2 11-15 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing — if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Our conversation was about Beth Moore and her teaching ministry. Some people were giving her a hard time concerning men showing up to her conferences/seminars and she was teaching them. What do you think Paul meant here? We're supposed to look for historical background to the scripture, relevance, etc. But this seems pretty cut and dried - women aren't supposed to teach men or have authority over them. I suppose this is regarding spiritual matters, but Paul wasn't specific. He is talking about spiritual matters before and after (conduct in church, modest dress, etc.).
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- Allen  - I don't need things, I need people - mb © 2002
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#62779 - 10/27/09 11:30 AM
Re: Women will be saved through childbearing
[Re: Allen]
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Disciple
Registered: 09/29/99
Posts: 11990
Loc: Texas
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Bock bock! Scaredy cats 
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- Allen  - I don't need things, I need people - mb © 2002
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#62786 - 11/02/09 09:49 AM
Re: Women will be saved through childbearing
[Re: Allen]
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Disciple
Registered: 03/29/00
Posts: 7044
Loc: Kingwood (get it? KINGwood), T...
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I ain't skeered.
In context Paul was writing to the church at Corinth inparticular. Also in the city of Corinth there was the Oracle of Delphi. In that, they had preistesess and prophetesess who caused much commotion. Paul was speaking foremost to the Christians in Corinth and calling them to be noticably different than the people who worshipped at the Oracle. On of the duties/authorities of the office of apostle is the guidance of the church. Paul felt it necessary to speak to this situation so that people could tell a difference. Paul also spoke about hair length and jewelry and dress. Not coincidentally at the oracle the preistesses wore garish makeup, shaved their heads and were scantily clothed.
I don't have time to look it up but I am curious as to the greek root of "saved" as used in that passage and I wonder what changes it could bring to the definition.
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"I'm part of the fellowship of the unashamed. I have the Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast. I have stepped over the line. The decision has been made - I'm a disciple of HIS. www.Real-Men.net
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#62793 - 11/07/09 05:07 PM
Re: Women will be saved through childbearing
[Re: Steve]
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Disciple
Registered: 09/29/99
Posts: 11990
Loc: Texas
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Interesting background Steve. I wonder why Paul was so specific that women shouldn't teach or have authority over men if he was discussing the issues with the oracles? The scripture would make more sense if Paul had mentioned the oracle and the issues he had with them.
_________________________
- Allen  - I don't need things, I need people - mb © 2002
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#62830 - 12/30/09 08:08 PM
Re: Women will be saved through childbearing
[Re: Allen]
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aka Trusting Him
Disciple
Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1176
Loc: Marietta, GA
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I stole this from "The Peoples New Testament" commentary. 1Co 14:34-36
Let the women keep silence in the churches. This, in view of other portions of the Scriptures, is confessedly a difficult passage. In 1Ti_2:11-12, We have the same teaching. On the other hand, Deborah was a judge and a prophetess; Huldah was a prophetess; Joel predicted that in the Christian dispensation "the sons and daughters should prophesy" (Joe_2:28), and Peter declared that this was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost (Act_2:4). In addition, the daughters of Philip prophesied (Act_21:9), and in 1Co_11:5, Paul gives directions concerning women prophesying. Probably these apparent discrepancies may be reconciled as follows: (1) Paul's prohibition of speaking to the women is, in the churches; that is, in the church assemblies when "the whole church is come together into one place" (1Co_14:23). It is an official meeting of the church. "Church" in the New Testament always means the ecclesia. It does not apply to such informal meetings as the social or prayer-meetings, but to formal gatherings of the whole body. (2) It may be that even this prohibition was due to the circumstances that existed in Ephesus, where Timothy was, and in Corinth, and would not apply everywhere. If so, it applies wherever similar circumstances exist, but not elsewhere. Both were Greek churches. Among the Greeks public women were disreputable. For a woman to speak in public would cause the remark that she was shameless. Virtuous women were secluded. Hence it would be a shame for women to speak in the church assembly. It is noteworthy that there is no hint of such a prohibition to any churches except Grecian. Wherever it would be shameful, women ought not to speak.
What? Was it from you that the word of God went forth? A rebuke. The Corinthian church must receive instruction, not give it. It did not send out the word of God, but the word of God was sent to it. and from the verse in question... 1Ti 2:11-15
Let the women learn in silence. In the public worship on the Gentile churches the teaching was confined to the men. For a discussion of the reasons, see notes on 1Co_14:33-36, where the same directions are given.
With all subjection. Submission to the authorized teachers of the church.
I suffer not a woman to teach. To become an authorized teacher of the church, a work confined to the presbyters.
Nor to usurp authority. Authoritative teaching and ruling were united.
Some reasons drawn from the story of man in Eden are given for these rules. It will be seen that Paul regards these events as shadowing forth spiritual lessons.
Adam was first formed. Man came in order before woman.
And Adam was not deceived. It was man who was first created, but woman who first led into the transgression. For these reasons a burden was laid on women which is spoken of in the next verse.
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing. Rather, through childbearing. Work was laid upon the fallen man; the pains of childbearing on the fallen woman. The apostle means here, that women will be saved in the line of their duties, and that those duties are domestic rather than public. There surely is no recommendation of the celibacy of monasticism. Possibly, too, another thought still may be alluded to. The first woman was assured that her seed should bruise the serpent's head. It was woman's glory that one of her sex was chosen to be the mother of our Lord. Thus through childbearing the Savior of all men comes into the world.
If they continue. Domestic duties will not save unless to these are added the graces of a holy life.
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Who are you? What do you want? Why are you here? Where are you Going?
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#62833 - 01/06/10 09:47 PM
Re: Women will be saved through childbearing
[Re: Andy]
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Disciple
Registered: 09/29/99
Posts: 11990
Loc: Texas
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Interesting... my pastor always speaks about looking at the context in which the scripture was written. That helps a lot, it would be nice if Paul gave us more in-line with this text 
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- Allen  - I don't need things, I need people - mb © 2002
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