Matthew 22:2-14



this is an interesting parable and seems to contradict much of what many of you hold very dear.

In this parable Christ is speaking of a wedding feast which I find symbolic of salvation in Christ. When the servants go out with invitations, they are rejected by the chosen guests (the Jews who have rejected Christ - God's chosen people in apostacy) In some instances the chosen guests even kill the servants with the invites (thus confirming that Jesus is talking about the Jews). So the Master decides to destroy them (pretty accurate historically thus far). Then he sends out invites to whoever they can find so that they can hold the wedding feast.

A bunch of folks show up (i.e. they accept Christ and are "saved") and the feast begins. So then the King comes out and notices one of the guests isn't dressed right. His response isn't "Well you accepted the invitation, so who cares about anything else." Rather he is bound and tied and cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This seems odd, but is not an isolated example of the notion of simply showing up being good enough. Not only must we show up, but we must be "dressed right" which is symbolic of how we live our lives, I believe. Perhaps, you all will differ on that opinion. IN fact, I'm certain you will.

As I mentioned though this is not an isolated example. Only a few chapters later. Jesus gives the parable of the 10 virgins with which we are all probably more familiar.

These 10 virgins were all anxiously awaiting the arrival of the Bridegroom (symbolic of Christ - with the wedding being the second coming). Since the virgins were all waiting, we can only assume that they are symbolic of us, believers in Christ anxiously awaiting his return and final judgement.

There's two things that are interesting here, one, lack of preparation means you ain't getting in (sounds like works). Two, the percentage of "believers" that actually get saved in this parable is frightening, it's only 50%.

This parable is immediately followed by another that reinforces the point that we must do something.



Three servants each entrusted with the Lord's talents so that he could eventually judge them based on what they did with their gifts. The two that actually accomplished something with what they were given were richly rewarded. The one that did not was cast out into outer darkness (just like the wedding guest with lousy clothes). Again, we have to assume that the servants represent believers or followers of Christ as they were all subjects of the Master. And Again we have to conclude that something is required of us other than simply being believers.

Christ himself explains it all to us at the end of Matthew 25



If we simply believe, but have not allowed our belief to blossom into action and "done it unto the least of these" thereby "done it unto" Christ, we will not be saved.

Thus we see how important to our salvation it is that we truly do good works as they are the only evidence of our faith when the judgement comes. So we would be wise to do as Paul instructed Timothy and

Yay! I smell some intellectual stimulation a brewin!




The Robe that we need to be wearing is the perfect 100% righteousness of Christ. It's his righteousness credited to us the moment we believe it.

Isaiah 61:10 "For he has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of righteousness,... as a bridegroom adorns his head like a priest, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels."

We have to be absolutely perfect to get into heaven. Any thing short of that and we are crispy critters. That robe, given to us by Jesus, is our perfection. Not by our works, but because of his works.

Phillipians 3:9 "and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith."

That is the robe you need to be wearing. It's your right now, just believe. Jesus lived the law in our place and credited his perfect obedience to us! Look:

Galatians 4:4-5 "But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons."


Check out this:

John 6:27-29 "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

He is telling them to labour for that which will endure ending with certain eternal life. They asked him what works God required of them that they would have eternal life. Jesus replied: "believe(trust) in him" In other words, believe (trust) that you can do nothing to gain eternal life because your righteousness will never be enough to get you in. It's all or nothing. Perfection or zero. Any attempt to use even a portion of our works will not do. If you want to get in by works, you must be perfect now and remain perfect, not become perfect. No sin, not one. However, Jesus has made you perfect already. Trust (believe) in him.

Notice in this verse both the "BAD" and the good were guests at the banquet.



The burning lamps represent faith. As we go through life, we must keep that faith burning by continually hearing the gospel of salvation by grace alone. That is the oil. Basically, keep the faith.



Notice that these people were "servants". That means they were already saved by faith alone. What comes after we have been made 100% perfect and are wearing the robe of Christ's perfect righteousness? We now work on our own righteousness out of thanks to such a great God as this! That work, counts for nothing in the matter of gaining eternal life. We already have eternal life. We do it out of love for God and our neighbor. This parable teaches "believers" that faith without works is dead. But those works don't contribute to gaining eternal life, istead, they are a "thank you God!" for giving me eternal life as a gift! Romans 6:23 "the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" How many gifts do you get that you have to pay for? If you have to pay for it, its not a gift, its a purchase.

Joel, you don't have to work for forgiveness. Your forgiven. Jesus died and because of that, God does not hold you and me accountable for the guilt of our many offenses against him. And he promises that our relationship with him will always be peaceful because he will remember our sins no more.

Correct
Faith without works is dead.

Incorrect. while faith without works is dead. Works are not required to be saved. Get saved first,know that Jesus has already made you perfect. Believe it and you may know now that you have eternal life. Now that your saved, go and show your faith by what you do. Show that you have been saved already. When you stand in the judgement , God will look at you and see the perfection of Jesus. You have nothing to fear and your conscience can be perfectly clear always. Then he will look at your own works and say: "this is proof that you believed that Jesus already made you perfect because you did them to thank me for what I had done for you and you didn't do them in order to gain eternal life."

Those who believe that they must do good works in order to gain eternal life, in whole or part, will stand in the judgement based on their works alone because they rejected the righteousness of Christ. Therefore they will be judged imperfect and all their good works as filthy rags because without faith (trust that Jesus has saved us apart from anything we do) It is impossible to please God. Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God" In the judgement, these people's good works will all be rejected because they did them to gain eternal life.

If I am reading the topic right (it's difficult to do when a post meanders around the point), I think this is one of those hair-splitting topics that is good for discussion, but doesn't affect something major, like our salvation... it's not like Jesus came back and gave us a whole new Gospel

Works is a natural display of what's going on inside you when you accept your salvation. It's not a requirement or the guy who hung on the cross next to Jesus would not have been mentioned. There's lots of scripture that says faith/belief is *the* requirement for salvation, works is a natural outward sign of that salvation.

I'm not sure anyone is interested in a point counterpoint between Echo and I.

Allen. I don't know that I have a point to make other than the fact that all of these parables are speaking of believers.

Even in the first one, the "Good and Bad" who came to the wedding are all symbolic of believers in Christ because they accepted the invite to believe - i.e. they expressed some faith in Christ.

It's interesting in that parable that only one guy was thrown out because his clothes weren't right. Simply accepting the invite for this guy wasn't good enough, he got thrown out. Presumably this guy wasn't the only "bad" to have accepted the invite - therefore it follows that others of the "bad" did what was needed and purchased or otherwise procured the proper wedding garments. They weren't thrown out. The only guy that was thrown out was the guy who took no thought other than to accept the invite - in other words, he took no thought except to say, "I believe."

Next Parable, 10 virgins. Again, all believers awaiting the arrival of the Bridegroom/Christ. 5 took no thought other than to show up, the other 5 took some thought to prepare for his coming. The 5 that took no thought, still believed - but they were not let in.

Last parable. As Echo said, these three were servants. As servants they were all saved. However it's interesting the servant that manifested no works, although saved, loses his salvation due to the absence of any good works.

To be clear, Jesus was on the cross next to a guy and said "this day thou shalt be with me in Paradise" or something to that effect (I'm paraphrasing). I don't know how much of a conclusion we can draw from this singular situation with respect to the salvation of us all. Christ was in a position that none of us are in with relation to the other fellow on the Cross, Christ was able to judge his heart with a perfect knowledge of his life and circumstances. We have no idea, what this guy's life was like. We only know that he manifested an attitude of faith and repentence.

I think the implication of the three parables is this, those who were rejected did not really have faith and this is evidenced by the lack of works. It is not enough to simply believe in or have faith in Jesus - the devils believe and tremble - that faith needs to generate works. And apparently, according to these parables, these works will play some role in our judgement. Truly it is the faith that saves, but only true faith manifested by good works.

Yes it is enough. Faith is a trust in the person and work of Jesus in our behalf. If something more than faith is required, then we have faith in the person and work of "self" instead of Jesus.

Perhaps I should say it a different way maybe instead of saying:



maybe I should have said, the only faith that is really faith is the faith that generates works.

Yes, this statement is true provided it is understood to mean that the one who generates works was already saved before they generated works. They generate works because they were saved, they don't generate works in order to be saved.

The call to salvation is first a call to do nothing.
Once we are saved(have eternal life)realizing we can do nothing to be saved, we are then called to do something: "love our neighbor as Christ loved us"
In other words, love our neighbor and expect nothing in return.

A good work is only a good work when we get nothing out of it. When it does not benefit us in anyway.

So reconcile that sentiment with the third parable.

The lousy servant who hid the talents. He and the other servants represent those who are already saved. And yet due to his lack of good works - not his lack of faith - he is cast into outer darkness.

The semantical argument is the discussion of 'faith/belief' - it's not enough to believe Jesus' exists, but the acceptance of His Lordship in their lives - that constitutes salvation, not just believing He exists.

The preponderance of scripture does affirm that salvation is solely dependent on the above faith. I believe that nothing can take your salvation from you, but that you can reject it/give it away - possibly that would explain the foolish virgins and 'lousy' servant portions of the parables - they actively gave away their place in the wedding/talents.

He had faith but proved, by his lack of works, that he no longer had faith, he only had a belief in the existence of God. But saving faith isn't belief in the existence of God, it is belief (trust) in the person and work of Jesus. That work of reconciling us to God permanently.

Think of it like this: If you know that Christ has completely reconciled you to himself for now and through to eternity, having forgiven all your sins from now till then, would you be glad and take a turn from the direction of sin you were headed in? Or would you stay in your sin? The fact that this fellow once had faith that all his sins were forgiven showed that it didn't mean anything to him. In other words, he rejected the forgiveness won by Jesus and preferred his sin.

Romans 5:10 "For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"

2 Corinthians 5:17-19 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Take a close look at the parable of the Sheep and Goats.

The Sheep(believers) and the Goats (unbelievers)in the judgment are seperated from each other BEFORE good deeds are even mentioned and judged.

That is the key to understanding the judgement. They are judged first of all as to whether they believed or not and that is the only criteria used for the seperation. The Sheep are then judged seperately from the Goats.
We know the sheep are saved because they are sheep. Now the judgement based on works comes in.
The Sheep are judged and there are no bad deeds mentioned, not one. That is because God has forgiven and forgotten all of the sheeps sins and has burried all their failures in forgiving silence and only remembers the good that they did.
The Goats are judged as not having one single good deed. Why? Because all the deeds they did were with the expectation of getting something in return. "For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat" In other words, "I was hungry but the food you gave me wasn't for me, it was for you, so that you could earn my forgiveness and gain eternal life."
" I was a stranger and you did not invite me in" in other words: "I was a stranger but you invited me in so that you could earn my forgiveness and merit eternal life" etc.
Notice verse 44 "They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry, thirsty...and did not help you?"

You see. These Goats thought they were doing good works, but they were glittering vices! They look good but are not good. They were good works done with the expectation of getting something in return. Remember I said earlier, a truly good work is one that is done without expecting anything in return.

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Those who do good works to gain eternal life or forgiveness are these goats because the works they do are not done for Jesus. they are done for themselves.

Does that make the point clearer?

Thank You,

I agree with Allen that it largely becomes a semantic issue. The fact is we are not saved without works because works are in fact the evidence of true faith. If there is true faith, there are works.

So consider this a person comes to faith in Christ - what should they do next?

There may be a semantic issue between you and us, but there is no sematic issue between the LDS church and us. We and the LDS church have two different gospels.

The Gospel of the LDS church is this: D & C 25:15 " Keep my commandments CONTINUALLY, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come."

Our Gospel is this: You cannot keep the commandments continually, in fact, you sin every day but unless you are perfect, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. But take heart! Jesus has made you perfect. Eternal life is a gift without charge, free to all who believe it.


It's true that without works, we aren't saved but OUR WORKS DON'T SAVE US.

There is too much subject to misinterpretation in what you wrote.
It gives the impression we are saved by works and we are not saved by works. We are saved by Jesus alone.

Faith believes they are saved already so they go and produce fruit.

It's like this: If I give you a gift, If you loved the gift, you would say "thanks!". But your "thanks" didn't contribute to your getting the gift. The gift came first.

Likewise, if I give you a gift and you don't like it you wouldn't be thankful and there would be no point for me to make you keep it.

In the first case your "thanks" didn't contribute to your getting the gift, the gift came first. In the second case, your lack of thanks actually contributed to your not getting the gift.

"...the gift of God is eternal life" Romans 6:23

Say thanks.

Echo,

Have I mentioned the LDS church. I have not

Let's keep this discussion firmly on the book we should all agree about - The Bible.

I've had my discussions with you and they have proven pointless for both you and me. Don't start up again.



Then what?

Love your neighbor as Christ has loved you.

Interesting answer - and when Christ answered the question of "who is my neighbor" his answer was a parable wherein a Samaritan demonstrated his neighborliness through good works.

Yes. Our neighbor is really "all people"

Yes, love naturally follows when we have the certainty of the unconditional love of God, the certainty that eternal life has been given to us as a free gift apart from anything we do.
And from the peace flowing from the certainty of knowing all our sins are forgiven.

It's a motivating message! It motivates us to do the same to our neighbor!

Have you any certainty?

This message from D & C: "Keep my commandments CONTINUALLY, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come"
Doesn't motivate me to love others, quite honestly, it scares me and motivates me to run from God!
But thats just me.

I am having deje vu suddenly. ;-)

But lets Carry on anyways.

Have you any certainty?

Allen,

You see, I've accidentally proved my point, even when I have no intention of discussing this in an LDS context, but am rather seeking to introduce a stimulating line of discussion where folks can think about their faith and give their answers. Echo insists on making it about the LDS church.

I am not the problem.

Please accept my sincere apologies for misunderstanding your intentions.One word in the name of the thread caused me to misundersatand your intentions. I hope I understand them now. Go easy on me if I still don't get it.

Lets continue...

Have you any certainty?