Yes, but you use the word "allow", joel. And "acceptable behavior". If we treated our husbands as the children that they acted as, they would resent us. We have to treat the situation a little differently. Usually, if I treat my husband with respect even when he does not deserve it, he will come around and realize that he is being a jerk.

As far as him sitting at the tv doing nothing...my husband is a very active father. He raised his son from the time he was 3 years old, and in between marraiges, he was a single father. He has coached our children's soccer teams, basketball teams, you name the team, he's coached it. He owns a business which he runs and deals with the stress of 24/7, he provides food, support, shelter, fun and games, lots of love, is trying to learn to be the spiritual head of our household, and in all this, darn right he deserves some "me" time when he gets home after a stressful day. Yes, I may work more hours, but I don't have to deal with the stress of the business or finances...he bears the brunt of the responsibility when it comes to that sort of thing. And if that doesn't warrant a good plop on the couch and a foot rub on a frequent basis, I don't know what does!

My husband, despite his control freakedness or whatever you want to call it, and despite any other flaws, is a good man and a great husband with a great heart. Yeah, we could all be better. Some have further to go than others until they are "there"...but I think that it's the opposite when you really want to break it down and stereotype genders here.

"Women put up with" blahblahblah...

I think that women (and this doesn't apply to EVERY WOMAN, but as a whole) wouldn't have to put up with the bad attitudes from their husbands if they would treat them with the respect that the Bible calls for a woman to treat their man with. Women's rights/women's lib, this and that...women shouldn't take it anymore, women have the right to put their foot down...

Darn right they do. But you go to stomping at your husband and demanding what you want, and your more likeley to get a boot up your butt than have your request fulfilled than if you go about it the Godly way and decide that someone has to do the right thing first, and realize that if his basic needs are being met (in most cases), he will begin to meet yours automatically without even realizing that he's doing it!

Communication is a biiiiig part of the equation here. Find out what his main needs are. Ask uncomfortable questions. Ask him to critique your homekeeping skills as a boss would his worker. Find out if it's more important to have the floors scrubbed or the dishes done.

Ask him questions about your sex life. Am I doing what I can to please you? Is there something that I'm not doing that would make you happy?

Ask about his emotions. Men do have them. Am I fulfilling you emotionally? And if you aren't, and if you don't know how, ask questions. How can I do better. I want to do better.

Prove that you are trying. It works in most cases. I promise...and without him even knowing it, he will start questioning what he is and isn't doing for you...and if you pray about it, he will start to be convicted in certain areas as well...

wow. thanks for not stereotyping anyone. [i try not to anymore]. it does take two to compromise or can it take one to startit and meet halfway too? EVERY MARRIAGE HAS DIFFERENT NEEDS. wHAT WORKS FOR ONE, MAY NOT WORK FOR THE OTHER. [; maybe you could trade house chores for one day. just to be out of a rut? LIKE HE COULD CLEAN HOUSE AND ''LET'' you mow the lawn etc. teasing. whatever works for both of you. [;

This is just sad and disturbing. I believe the not doing anything on weekends reference was to Angels post. Respect needs to be earned. Giving it easily hasn't helped or changed a thing it just keeps it going. Big part of why I won't buy the bible. You are following destructive information. I can't beleive God said that or intended it for anyone woman or man. I also see it as a rationalization to allow it whether it's in the bible or taught.

God I'm sure never intended this hopeless helpless life for anyone. Just that should tell a person how very wrong it is. It's evrey bit as bad if not worse than adultry.

It's dreaming to fool oneself into doing the right thing will cause another to also do the right thing. I think it's the boot in the butt that really scares those of us that are replying. It shouldn't take the stomping to get the respect ypou deserve to begin with. And, it's respect that decides how a person will/does treat others.

Starting with the paragraph about communication is a biiiig.... seems he should be sking what more he can do in every area mentioned not telling what his needs are. Slavery has been abolished and that's exactly what all that concern over the masters needs is. Your actions alone are proof that you are trying. Hasn't worked so far and it won't. It isn't broke for him doesn't need any fixing. He's got a good thing going and the bible on his side. Don't want to be him at judgement time though.

I know I'm not married. I haven't always been unpartnered though. NEVER have I treated anyone especially my partner this way nor would I allow myself to be treated this way. I'm sure it won't seem the same but the bottom line is. Married or not, living with someone you allegedly love shouldn't be anything like this situation or others in this thread. I respect being loyal to a spouse but we are only replying to what has been put out there to us. If the he, was loyal, none of this would be. Strangers shouldn't be treated in this way much less a life partner.

I know a lot has been said that hasn't been wanted to be heard. I understand that nothing will change so I'm going to try very hard to keep quiet now. It just seems to me, if things are the way the bible says they should be, if everyone is doing or not what they should, if it's the christian way of life and it isn't important or much matter, and the man is a good man, then, why, is all of this stuff in print and out there for all to read?

Hey, now. Why are you getting so offended? First of all, the quality of my marraige HAS improved greatly. The advice in the Bible works. Every time. As far as the controlling being worse than infidelity, I beg to differ because I have experienced BOTH and trust me, infidelity was waaaaay worse.

And why is this stuff in print? Because if something I say or suggest can improve the quality of someone else's life the way the quality of my life has been improved by following the words of the Bible, then I would air all my dirty laundry.

My husband does his fair share. He takes me out 2 times a week for a little "date". If he comes home from work and I'm still at gymnastics or ballet with the kids, he fixes dinner. He coaches ALL of their teams, soccer, t-ball, basketball. Attends all of their games and recitals. Prays with his family before bed every night. Shows us love and affection almost constantly.

He has his moments. We all do. But he is so much better than he used to be, and I could find 30 people EASY who would tell you the same. People who have known him since before I did could tell you that he is a different man.

He knows his weaknesses and he tries to become stronger in those areas. He is constantly trying to become a better man.

But in order to want to be better it took someone to love him enough through the bad times and show him that there was something in him to love. He didn't have to DO anything to make me love him. I saw that there was something in him that people around him have always seen but never spent enough time with him to bring it out. He's now getting involved with the children's ministry at our church, we both have a common goal of starting our own children's ministry one day...He is becoming good friends with our pastor, our music minister, the children's minister AND the hospitality minister who both have seen such awesome changes in him that they are left speechless at times.

My husband and I have had and will continue to have struggles, but through God's grace and some persistence on my part, we have and will continue to come through the problems one at a time.

I am better for knowing him, and I know he feels the same. We compliment each other. I don't feel as if my life is miserable. The good times BY FAR outweigh the bad times. And the bad times are getting less and less bad and fewer and farther between. And they are becoming inconsequencial in the grand scheme of things as we grow stronger and closer to each other and to God.

Tell me all day that the advice in the Bible is baloney. I won't believe you because I've practiced it and it WORKS. God works. He has never let me down before...and I don't figure Him to ever let me down.

i had about two pages of reply at about 3 this afternoon, then my computer locked up and i had to lose it all, i cried then i signed on 5 minutes ago and read the last three posts, i am letting it all soak in, and i have lots to say. i will pray over it an respond. trust me, lots to say. God love all of yall and i will be back. Still all ears ....

GOD BLESS YOU! take care. [;

True, the times when Bible was written was for a different culture than ours , yet many churches even take what they want from it or twist it around and make a new religion or pervert it somehow. Everyone comes away with a different, not nec. bad perception from the Bible or even a sermon. same sermon may mean nothing next time same person hears it. sounds alot like marriages today. ? DIFFERENT perspectives also. if you do everything for a child[or partner]they stop trying assuming youll fix anything for them. instead of changing themselves . I could be wrong, -happens. some ships cant be repaired, depends on the architect who knows the blueprints. and engineers who knows what makes it run smoothly.

Yes, but there are some things that are cut and dry and do not change with the times. There are some things that can only be taken one way...

alright, lemme give this a shot again.

why do i allow this .. um, abuse happen ? simply because i allow it to, i agree kris, you teach people the way you want to be treated. i roll over and play dead and stuff emotions till the boiling point simply because i CHOSE peace over conflict resolution. is this healthy ? i doubt it. but it is drastically different from the example i grew up with, my mother tells my father where to poop and when to wipe. my father is so desensitized to what is happening to him that he will defend it until he dies. it is his choice. my choice is to not choose battles where battles are better burried. the way i look at it is i am blessed in my situation. we live in a beautiful house (when we stay put) and my children are the real winners here. they have a love filled envoironment where they are learning things most kids thier age havent. my daughter has known her aplhabet since 16 months, and taught herself colors and shapes. she prays spontaneously and i find her talking to jesus when she plays without prompting. she is sheltered in that she knows how to share and does so with her baby brother, what 2 year old has those values ? i'll tell ya, the one that has a mother who is able to stay home and teach and love and show her what living christian is all about. shoot, i have my moments and i am pretty frazzled come 4 in the afternoon, but my children are well adjsuted, healthy kids. that has been my focus, my motivation and my only concern. i will always lose myself in the sceme of things when it comes down to "biting the bullet" and put myself in physical exhaustion, emotional denial and frustration in order to keep peace. it is my own unhealthy choice. why am i reambling about all this seemingly unconnected stuff ? because when it comes down to it, i MUST shut up and put up in order to not develop an environment that resembles that of myfamily of origin.

now if i can muster up the strength and turn unfearingly to God and actually address the methods by which my husband and i go about our relationship, then i think i can change this pattern we have formed. we have only been married for 3 yrs this march and i think there is time to grow and not get stuck in a bad habit way of treating each other and allow yourself ot be treated.

there are things i am already starting to do, i really want date night, i have begun ASKING him what are his concerns, desires etc like michelle suggested and i have also taken some serious time (for the past three days) thinking about what I really need and want, like kris has alluded to.

here is where i am at right now with all of this.... one, i can honestly say that i doubt much will change for a while. things seems to work this way and we tend to "get around" things without really fixing anything. being totally honest, kris, keeping peaceful mornings and weekends will continue until i can get it in my head that the risk of change is worth shakign the bed (so to speak). and honestly, i subscribe to michelle's philosphy about the role of women and men. why ? it surely isnt because it was shown to me, and it isnt a reinforced faith thing, as i am catholic and biblical roles arent preached or enforced too strongly. why do i do it ? because i feel it truly in my heart that is what is right. i feel that love can be given by being seemingly submissive and growth can take place and a woman can feel strong and in control and beautiful and appreciated. it is new for me. i am strongwilled and frankly, a bootyhead when it comes to keeping my mouth shut and doing the right thing. i come from a very maternal family, and women rule, this makes my now approach of humility a constant work in progress. i feel RIGHT in the Lord when i deny myself and put others first. and i have experienced tenfold rewards in my life for being such, so dont knock the biblical way of having relationships, it DOES work and it will bring forth awesome things. some things dont change, and yeah, it works.

where do i start ? other than do the things that are suggested ? what kind of interior look can i take at myself that betters me to handle marriage as time goes on ? how can i NOT make the mistakes of my parents or his parents and change the path we are on now in order to prevent abuse being a habit ? what part of it is MINE and what part is his ? the serenity prayer takes over and leaves me with .. yeah, i know what i need to do, but how to get there ? i am missing the map to get across town, i know where i am headed and know north, south, east west, but what roads to take ?? what baby steps? some of the things michelle suggested i have already started doing, some i am afraid might propel unhealthy behavior between us.

i have lots mroe to say, but both kids are needing my attention. be back soon.

michelle is correct. I dont have enough marriage experience to help anyone here. its hard for men to admit when wrong, its an ego thing eh? not necessarily gender. since angel seems to take after her dad in this case, mellow. its weird how we end up marrying one of our ''parent'' types. my ex hubby was so much like my dad in personality and behavior towards my mom or other females who were meek. like me. both my parents are passive-agressive. I had to find out why i was drawn to that, maybe trying to punish myself some way ? i HAD VOWED NEVER TO MARRY A MAN ''JUST LIKE DEAR OLD DAD'', i think many women start out saying that. seems like angel, married your ''mom'' instead. sorry if confusing.

One thing that helped us alot, not sure if it would be something he would do...but getting an accountability group started for him at your church. Every Friday morning at 5:30 am my husband leaves for breakfast with a group of Christian guys who have a little Bible Study or discussion group about how they treat their family.

He's been "slapped in the face" so to speak by his Christian brothers, and I don't even have to say a word! Hehe. When he comes home at 6:30 to take me and Celeste to breakfast (as he has begun to do every Friday before school), he is always full of new things that he learned or new convictions that he has from hearing these guys talk about their families.

It has helped us alot, as well as getting into the Word. I know that sounds churchy and trite, but it really helps when I actually take the time to do it. Honestly, it does. And worship music through my day as I go about my daily house stuff. Getting myself in the right frame of mind and realizing that I can't change HIM, but I can change me and I can change the way that I react to his occaisional nonsense helps tremendously.

And we do attend Wednesday night services at church where they do a couples class. That class is what spurred the changes to come about in him...

I just started yesterday attending a women's group where we do a study on Proverbs 31...it got me all pumped to know that there are other women who have the same thoughts and struggles that I do, but who have the heart to make their marraiges extraordinary just by trying to do the right thing on their own...

And prayer...

Hope something, anything in there helps...

your words have indirectly helped me, though single again. will keep in mind. neat idea about church accountability , sometimes men need outside support too, as women have theirs in girlfriends. men need their caves to brood . they need christian brothers to relate better. if this makes any sense, let me know. thanks.got my prayers.

yeah, i have suggested john join the knights of columbus, which is the men's group at our church. they do all kinds of stuff but you dont have to be an active member, you can go just for fellowship etc. it would be neat, but i cant force him. he isnt the word's most social guy. i will work on it. for now, i will bite off chewing taking a more honest upfront aproach talking about my feelings as well instead of hiding things all down deep. my head is spinning right now and i am digesting all kinds of stuff. is it really abuse ? am i overreacting ? who knows. marriage ... pretty dad gum tough

any way for this group to contact him? That could make a difference. i hope. take care!

yeah, i dunno. trying to work more on myself, he's a big boy, and like michelle said, me doing good and healthy things in accordance with the Lord will bleed off onto him wanting to do things like that as well. The only thing i can do is know that goodness is infectious as well as unhealthy behavior. And I am only in control of ME .... gotta start somewhere.

yea, thats true. i wish you well, and got my prayers. [;

just the simple fact that you have a grasp on the situation and can see it for what it is tells me you will be fine and your marriage is strnghtening...yes i said strengthening. anyone can make it through good times, but when toughtimes arise and you get by , you grow and mature and figure out how to endure.
i am 17 urs married and i remember how dumb and selfish i was at yr 3. my wife and i are so different now, so much more mature and we have a different focus and the little daily annoyances are no longer annoyances. but it was a tough time bak then........
nab

thank you, that is so encouraging. i truly feel like things will shape up somehow. although somehow it seems like we are treating water right now. last night, out of the blue, he asks "what is the one thing i can do that would make your life better ?" we were in the car and i froze. he said i have been so upset with him lately i had barely talked to him, so i thought a while and said "more help with the kids". so i felt lots better, i tell ya. then we got home, and nothing happened. i guess he is swallowing it all. God works no matter what, I know, in his own timeline, but when you turn to him, he delivers, one way or another, just keep in mind at prayer time. thank you.

hmm, maybe he needs more details as to how he can help with the kiddos. ive learned you gotta be direct with men. unless they are really psychic. hehehe you dont want that.

you are right, spin, talked to him a minute ago, he said he is putting a plan of action together, and needs more ifo as to how, so he says, pray we cab figure it out.