We got into a discussion about Women pastors/ministers/missionaries today at dinner

I want to be a youth minister/ worship leader so this really affected me.

In the Baptist denomination they will not ordain women...

So basically in current times and Bible times Women were allowed to travel the world and every where else and preach about God... but we couldn't preach about Him as a PASTOR in a church...

Women can be youth MINISTERS, worship leaders, sunday school teachers, or whatever else but are not allowed to be PASTORS (hence youth MINISTERS)

I know it's Biblical but I just don't understand it...

It's perfectly fine with me to be unordained I'm just kinda confused...

Any opinions or thoughts?

Yes it's not biblical, its chauvanisitc.

If a woman is in her right place in a marriage and the Husband is the head of the home (whole other discusion as to what that means) and he supports her then scripturally she can be a pastor. There are many women who had churches in their homes in biblical times. Some denominations get hung up on some technical scriptures that spoke to a specific instance that was happening in the post ressurection church. Paul wrote many things about women. Don't talk, don't teach, don't cut your hair.. etc. Paul was talking to the church at Ephasus that sat literally across the street from the Oracle at Ephasus which was filled with babbling, bald, prophetesses who taught. Paul was telling them to be different so that the church of Jesus Christ could be seen as something of order and structure, not chaos and disruption. See those new converts had almost to a person come from the Oracle and were trying to make Christianity look like the Oracle.

Nowadays people use that passage to beat up women and hold them back. It was not so. Look at Proverbs 31. Research Chloe, Phoebe, Junia, Euodia, Syntyche, Priscilla and many others in the NT. and look at the original language of what they were called and thier roles in the church. It does nto line up with some churches doctrine.

That said I must go back to the issue of spiritual headship. If a female is not in correct hierarchy then I do not believe she may pastor anyone!

God bless ya and be patient! All things in God's timing!

Thank you...

I don't think I see a problem with ordaining a woman or with a woman being a pastor as long as she is in God's will...

Again here we see of the fact of why we should not let the Bible dictate our lives in the sense of rules and how we should believe.

How is that a fact Mouse? I did use the Bible to prove my point.

If you would like I can get the exact scriptures and show you. One must come to an understanding of scripture and not simple spew random quotes trying to convince someone of doctrine. All precepts of Christianity are supported in at least two places in scripture. It really is that simple!

Everything in the Bible can be taken two ways by anyone. So why even bother trying to live your life by vauge rules and regulations? Create rules as they are today. That's what you sahould do. What applies today may not have applied 4000 years ago.

You're basically living by the Wiccan reade man...

live your life the way you want to just as long as it doesn't hurt anyone...

*Wacks Clinging heartily on the back*

Finally someone in here with the right idea.

Yo, Senor, she wasn't agreeing merely making a statement or impression of your view.

Hey Mouseyman...

I had a friend who was a pagan. We would always get into some really interesting conversations and he was very "open" to listen to my views on things. There was one thing that he had trouble with and that was the promise that not accepting Christ would land you in hotwater...so to speak

Well, we did go round and round on that and he said...so what if you go through your whole life following the rules only to find out that it wasn't true? My answer to that was that I could say that I lived a good life, based on my beliefs, and that I didn't compromise myself or hurt anyone else in the process. I was a better person for it.

My question to him was...what if you go through your whole life believing that it wasn't true...and it really was...

Who do you think will fare betta...?

Very good point embie...

and the Wiccan reade isn't something I would choose to live by... notice I don't... notice I choose not to

Emibie, the question you just asked me is the same question people have asked us for many years. Here's my answer: Why lie and say that I believe when I really don't? I go back to my previous thought of: If there was a God as you describe him, do you really think he would be decieved by my lies? Think about it. Which one is better: Me saying that I believe when I don't or me saying that I don't believe when I don't?

To Clinging: Weather you follow by what you said or you don't, it described how I live most of my life. That's all.

I told you that you were messing with fire...

I can't say anything to make you believe in God... all I can do is say that hopefully one day you will... well... I know one day you will cause one day you will see Him in all His Glory and fall on your knees.

I don't know how you explain our purpose, the Earth's creation or anything else. But I do pray that one day you will realize that God is the only way.

I'm sorry for whatever disloyalties people have commited against you. I hope that has nothing to do with this. Know that God will never betray you. I'm here if you ever need to talk...

Rachel

God designed men to be the head of spirituality in the family. He also chose them to be the spiritual leaders in the world. The Bible says that the men should be the spiritual leaders.

http://www.carm.org/questions/womenpastors.htm

And thus, this topic can go south fast because, taking what you just said to be true; men are better than women.

Ouch.

fUNNY HOW YOU TAKE SOME4THING AND IMMEDIATELY READ SOMETHING ELSE INTO IT....SPIRITUAL LEADERS.
NOT BETTER THAN...
one thing i notice mouse, is you have a very different way of thought and thought processing.
I did that too when i was using marijuana, clouded up my mind and logic in a big way. You too?
your logic isnt logic, and your sense of spirit is really different.
nabster

It actually cleared my mind a bit.

That's what people who use it think, the exact opposite happens tho, the user just doesn't know it. I am just assuming you were responding to nabster that 'yes, I use' - sorry if I assumed wrong.

a clear mind is one without recreational drugs.
why do think they call it dope? or stoned? or wasted? or any term you will find representing pot.

I still like the fried egg commercial...

...This is your brain on drugs... made a good statement.

I heard a recent study (yesterday) that marajuana used decreased in teen men 12-17, but increased in teen women. Really makes me sad...

The best commercial is the one with the lady who is thanking some company for helping her get so much done around the house. All the while she is rolling up some literature from that company and finishes the commercial by whacking her reclining-on-the-couch husband on the head with the rolled up literature and telling him to "get to work!"

The scariest one to me is one that's running now...it's where the teen looses his little sister and they say..."it's ok, just tell them you were off getting stoned, they'll understand..."

So what would you rather have: someone stoned or someone out of control? Think about it. I know people (sometimes myself included) who, "because we do not know God", have no other way to release anger. If we didn't do this, things would get way worse. Wayyyyyyyy worse.

i have to say this ... mouse, your points are taken and i am glad to see everyone piping in to clarify and make points, but it seems every thread you post in you turn whatever it is being talked about into an issue about YOU. it is really getting tiresome and i wish i could respond to some of these threads without doing therapy on you.

disclaimer: i apologize, i only express my opinion, not the opinion of anyone else here.

Point taken anangelsarms. *Tips hat*

*Goes back to whatever I used to do when I was bored*

Hey Mouse, no one here wants to see anyone in pain, but trying to justify illegal drugs as a means to live in the real world is a bit ridiculous don't you think? Denial is easy, sticking your head in the sand is simple, that's what using drugs is, an easy way to avoid living. If you hate the life you're living, change it, don't distort it to fit some delusional idea of what life should be like. Living is hard. Making your way through this world is not a picnic, but there are many more people doing it clean and sober than there are addicted. Chalk one up for sensibility, responsibility and accountability. I have lived with an addict. It is not fun. It is painful and hurtful for all involved. I have sympathy for those that cannot kick it. It is heartbreaking. I don't have sympathy for those who don't try to kick it, or even worse, promote it. Substance abuse destroys lives; physically, emotionally and spiritually. If any of you cannot see or understand that, then you are totally deceived.

I do not promote it. I see what it has done to many of my friends. However, I also do not condemn it. Some poeple in life can find things to live for. Others can not. If that little bit of high time helps them push on to the next day, then I have no problem with it. It is their choice. I understand that living is hard, but life is harder for some more than others. Who knows what people have to go through in their lives. I knew a kid, let's call him Bill, who looked and acted like a complete screw up. He smoked, drank, basically did everything that was socially reprehensible. I didn't like the kid a whole lot merely because he was in a constant state of being stoned. Then one day I took the time to talk to him and find out his story. I found out that his mother abandonded him when he was a small kid. He was found by his grandparents and taken in. Every week his mother comes back to him asking for money for cocaine. She makes him feel like a bad son if he doesn't. This has been tearing him up for years. This is his escape from the world. This is why drugs are for some, but not all.

y aknow , it is difficult to know why someone uses. Thier past, or current issues. I dont really judge someone unless they are just plain rebellious and know it and fail to make choices to better themselves. someone who has real emotional psychological issues(parents, death, abuse whatever) i am more loving and lenient than someone who is just pure "stoner"....ahem HOWEVER....it is NEVER the best option, NEVER. it is a temporary mechanissm of escape in order to cope. There is always a better solution , be it a 12 step program, a faith based program or supernatural healing from God. But there is a better way.period. taking drugs to cope ...in the long haul...is a cop out.
BTW, glad your still hangin a bit with us Jesus freaks.
*tips hat to mouse*
nabicus maximus

Ah Nabster, I couldn't leave ya.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SenorElMouse:
Some poeple in life can find things to live for. Others can not. If that little bit of high time helps them push on to the next day, then I have no problem with it. It is their choice.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And within those words quite possibly lies an answer.

I can say I cannot and others cannot but in the end you have already answered the question.

It is their choice!

And somewhere down the road we all have to quit blaming others and begin the process of taking a deep look at ourselves and begin to make choices that will guide me/us to a better life.

I second what embie had to say!!!!

and there is always something to live for and I am LIVING proof of that... ask my parents or youth minister... I was about 12hrs away from killing myself and would have if it wasn't for God...

and here's something else to think about Temtation leads to sin which leads to death spiritually AND physically

if you're tempted to get stoned and do that's a sin you WILL DIE spiritually and then YOU WILL DIE physically James 1:15-16 says "Then, after desire (temptation) has concieved, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. Don't be decieved, my dear brothers." There is also a place in the Bible... I can't give you the passage... but it says that if you continue to sin and cause others to sin then God will take you out of this world early.