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Terri Schiavo #32326 02/23/05 06:43 PM
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I've only been following the latest news on Terri
Schiavo a few days. It's a hard situation. I feel like removing her feeding tube would be considered murder (death by starvation, slow and painful). She is not being kept alive by any mechanical means such as a ventilator. Why doesn't the husband just divorce her and let her go and be with her parents the rest of her life; they are willing to care for her? Anyone else have an opinion on this? If they prosecute parents for starving their children how is this different?

Re: Terri Schiavo #32327 02/23/05 09:10 PM
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you make a valid point. he could divorce her, and shed be off his conscience. my guess is his wife wouldnt want anyone to see her suffer this way. thats how id be.

Re: Terri Schiavo #32328 02/23/05 10:32 PM
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Hello? Divorce is not Biblical .....
The sanctity of human life is to say that no one life is more valuable than another. it is also to say that suffering is part of this world. and many ministries are born out of suffering. Euthanasia is wrong, assisted suicide is wrong. If a person is living without artificial support they should be allowed to continue, unless a living will legally executed, states otherwise. if there is artificial support sustaining life, than death would be natural and not intentional if the support were removed.

Get a living will and a last will and testament with health care power of attorney to someone who would have your best interests at heart. especially if you have children and or assets to consider.

nabster


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Re: Terri Schiavo #32329 02/23/05 10:36 PM
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I know divorce isn't biblical but neither is murder. The husband clearly wants to get rid of her so he can go on with his life. What would be better, for him to divorce her or for him to have her feeding tube removed causing her death?

Re: Terri Schiavo #32330 02/23/05 11:21 PM
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THAT IS A TOUGH CALL. but intriguing topic for the forum. see what others have to say should be interesting.

Re: Terri Schiavo #32331 02/24/05 03:38 AM
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Nabster, is not a feeding tube artificial support?

Re: Terri Schiavo #32332 02/24/05 05:20 AM
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I understand he has kids with another lady... I don't think he's worried about the 'sinful' aspect of divorce wink

Technically, I think a feeding tube is artificial support, but there are many valid reasons to have artificial life support systems in place - the family is saying that she has never rec'd speech therapy to be able to communicate and/ or eat - I'm not sure why, unless he hasn't pursued it on her behalf since they expected her to die shortly after taking her off the vent. Instead she's gotten well enough to do ok without vent support.


- Allen [Linked Image]
- I don't need things, I need people - mb © 2002
Re: Terri Schiavo #32333 02/24/05 05:32 AM
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So, it's a matter of the one with the power, (her husbnd) to either order speech therapy or not. Right? I just wish she could speak for herself. At least I beleive she's sane and competent to decide her fate. I've seen her on tv and love her spirit. To the best of her ability I think she communicates.

Can you tell who is insomniac tonite?

Re: Terri Schiavo #32334 02/24/05 02:33 PM
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What is the difference ina paraplegic who cannot physically feed themselves and has to have assistance and a feeding tube.....one requires personal attention. I do not conider feeding tube artificial support.it is support but just done outof conveniencemore or less. I would encourage all of us to do a study on the Sanctity of Human Life(not abortion stuff but euthansia and assited suicide.)
very difficult scenarios make it tough to know what to do WITHOUT BIBLICAL REFERENCES.
nab


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Re: Terri Schiavo #32335 02/24/05 03:38 PM
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you all make valid points here. its hard to know until youre in that situation as a patient or caretaker. you may change your mind . power of aattourney is a powerful obligation to decide ones fate. things can change. scary!

Re: Terri Schiavo #32336 03/23/05 10:04 AM
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Years ago, I worked in a church nursery in Dothan. On Wednesday and Sunday nights, a 15 year old boy was brought in to the nursery. He had been brain damaged since birth. He would smile and he would cry. His bodily functions worked, he could make sounds, but not talk. I remember winding up a music box for him that played "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" and his eyes would light up. When I think about Terry Schiavo, I think about this boy. I just can't imagine withdrawing a person's food from them. To me, starvation is a horrible way to die.

I could have had a child like this. My first baby was stillborn. I was 8 months old when I went to the doctor and they could not find a heartbeat. They did an ultrasound then another one at the hospital to confirm it. I checked into the hospital that night and had them to induce labor. When the baby was born, he had many birth defects. In fact, he was only about the size of a 5 month fetus. We had an autopsy done and the condition that caused this was intrauterine growth retardation. Of course, this changed my view on things dramatically. I had never been for abortion and this strengthened my views and opinions. Maybe that is why I feel the way I do about this particular case.

Sometimes I have to remind myself, God wants us to let go of things so He can handle them. Maybe, this is the case with this girl. If we just pray that God's will be done, I am positive that He will take care of things. I know if I hadn't have let go of what happened to my baby, I would not have been able to have two other beautiful healthy children. I still feel the emptiness sometimes for baby "Michael" but I know that he is in heaven with Jesus.

Re: Terri Schiavo #32337 03/23/05 02:10 PM
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what a powerful story . ty for sharing. seems terri's hubby has moved on and just waiting to collect money if she doesnt survive. its sad. terri does seem alert, just childlike. but still human. sorry about your loss. I do feel for you and have my prayers as well. God bless!

Re: Terri Schiavo #32338 03/23/05 02:25 PM
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Thanks for your prayers and concern. My baby was born back in 1990 so it has been quite a while. There's still a void there though but then again thanks be to God for allowing me to have two more children.

Re: Terri Schiavo #32339 03/23/05 03:07 PM
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As has been said numerous times in these past days "get it in writing" legally. I've been all over the place with this case. I'm now at the place that I beleive letting her go is the right thing. I also beleive what was done by the government to be an abomination to the nation. They have now set a precident for future intrusion in any and every marriage. It seems and they would have us beleive it was only about one very specific case but that isn't the truth.

I believe inspite of this man having a second family (making no moral judgement here) the fact he is still her husband and is trying to honor what he says are her wishes, says a lot about the man. If not being tied to a person in a vegetative state was his only priority he could have been free of her/that very long ago. In fact, I suspect many men would have done so after a year or two.

I tried putting myself in her place. It's impossible but with a little effort and allowing for the unknown it isn't absolutely possible. I watched my mother die an horrible painful death from a disease that left her very much in the same place as Terri. The difference being her mind was sharp as a whip to the very end. That made her a prisoner in her own body and she was very aware of it. I personally am terribly claustrophobic. I can only imagine that is what paralysis is like. Being bound or confined. At least my mother had the luxury of being able to speak her needs and wishes. Terri can't. My mother didn't make provisions for her care earlier in life. She knew my father and his thinking well wnough to know he would NEVER allow a plug to be pulled or anything of that nature. The very day she was admitted to a continuing care facility (nursing home) as soon as he was out of hearing distance she asked me to go to the office and get her a DNR (Do Not Recessitate) order. She was still able to write at this time. It was the only control she had over her life since her physical condition already incpacitated her and he was in total control of her care. Now back to my insinuatiing myself into the situation. Living as my mother did for a long time would have been the very worst thing that could happen to me. I put myself in Terri's noncommunicative place. We don't know how much if any thought she is capapbel of although I heard a doctor who had worked with her say although awake she is in a coma and thinks and feels nothing. But nobody knows absolutely that is the case. I thought what if that was me but mentally I had it together enough to know what my life was. I can't tell anyone I want to die, I may be screaming let me go inside my head but nobody could hear me. Her husband makes the claim they had discussed this sort of thing and she didn't want to end up the way she is. I beleive him. Again, if free of her is all he wanted I beleive that would have happened a long time ago. Back to my mother again. All the time she was in the convalescent center they gave her every medication she had taken before. Since two of the meds were for her heart, in a sense the medication made her live, a living hell. She frequently said that she wished it was already over. With massive doses of pain medication she never lost focus or sensibility. Finally, she and I fooled my father into moving her to hospice. I suppose there will be those who won't agree with what we did but it was her life. After entering hospice care for those who don't know, all medications are stopped. The only (for the most part) medication given is for pain management. (let me mention here that her care in the convalescent center was horrible most of the time. she suffered rough handling for her condition often being shot staffed caused long waits for everything including medication) To make this long story a little shorter, after the medication that was forcing her to live was stopped, it only took five days for her to die. Those were the best five days of the last ten months of her life. My father and I were so used to tending to her needs our minds were blown by the constant loving gentle care she got in hospice. The quality of life she had those five days was finally what I beleive every person deserves. It was my fathers denial of her beng terminal that forced her to suffer for so long. So, husbands can NOT ONLY stop but prolong the inevitable. Of course my mother ate and drank for four of those five days until she went into her death coma.

A little about the starving her. First the probability in her case is she feels nothing. Starvation for a person who has been at all healthy is different than for a person who hasn't. At hospice, we never force people to eat more than they want. When a body isn't active and funtioning normally food actually causes discomfort. Family memebers tend to force food beleiving they need it to keep up their strength and to fight it (whatever it is). Hospice is all about comfort, and quality and dignity of the persons life. The truth is, less is more for most inactive sick peole in the nourishment department. Actually what well people don't know because of what we experience when just hungry let alone what we consider starving or malnutated is, the not eating causes the brain to produce endorphins. A euphoric state of well being takes over. They actuall feel better than with a big lump of food in their belly that isn't digesting very well.

There are no easy or simple answers. I know it's supposed to be Gods will not ours. You know me well enough to know I beleive everything is from God. In this instance I beleive that to be the knowledge that has been gained allows us to keep people comfortable while letting them go. I beleive that until it's Gods will, that person will not die. I can only assume that at some point in Terri's life and care perhaps her first admission to the hospital she was declared terminal. Hospice only cares for terminal residents/patients. The mistake many people make is with the six month policy. Yes, a doctor has to say this person may die in six months for them to enter hospice care at home or in a facility. If that person lives longer than the six months an evaluation is done. If their condition is at all deteriorated their hospice staus is renewed for another six months. I knew a resident who was in hospice care for over four years. I just can't let go of her possibly screaming "let me go " in her mind and nobody being able to hear it. I've prepared for my future, the peole who will speak for me if I can't are NOT family. Families very often do not honor the wishes because they don't want to feel the guilt and responsibility for letting the loved one go. Forcing life can be evrey bit as horrible as letting it end.

Re: Terri Schiavo #32340 03/23/05 03:20 PM
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I am sorry to hear what your mother went through. But, there is a difference between a terminal illness and what Terry is going through. Terry could live a long time. My father in law had cancer, started in his colon and spread to his liver. There was nothing the doctors could do. He chose not to have radiation therapy.

Re: Terri Schiavo #32341 03/23/05 07:06 PM
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Thank you. We mostly know what her family and the politicians want us to. Considering the feeding tube is life support she is terminal. Terri already has lived in this state a long time. She shouldn't have to is the whole point.

Re: Terri Schiavo #32342 03/24/05 05:25 AM
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Okay, I am Mad at the Husband [Linked Image] he don't care for her at all and just uses her for her money and life insurance now!

I Pray God in Jesus Name Takes Control from the husband who don't care and is using Terri!! Please Jesus Help Terri Parents right now, Please give Terri Love everyone and keep her alive for everyone and the doctors! Please In Jesus Name Help Terri Stay Alive and Give the Courts and Judges sympathetic for Terri!!!! Please give Terri's Parents Help! In Jesus Name I Pray AMEN!!!

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Love Always for Terri!!!


Love n' Hugs YSIC, o/

KristiAnn
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Re: Terri Schiavo #32343 03/24/05 12:39 PM
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Just think at this time of year when Jesus was crucified and rose again, Terri is showing the world how crucifixions still exist today. it is the people who use the law to justify it,, just like the Jewish rabbis of Jesus' day. I pray God miraculously saves her and even restores her speech to teach those who wish to kill her a lesson . Have mercy on her soul and her body, Lord.
nab


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Re: Terri Schiavo #32344 03/24/05 03:31 PM
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See I think what they are doing is wrong. They aren't helping her breathe or anything else, they are just feeding her and hydrating her. My question is: wouldn't we all die if we were being fed or hydrated? the only difference is she can't feed herself but again that makes me think of the person that has no hands or the paralized person who's family or spouse has to feed them because they can't do it themselves. She's no different. Her brain does everything for her except allow her to feed herself. I also tend to think of the verse in the bible that says: I give you life and at that life abundantly. God gave her life so what gives us the right to take it away. Don't you think if it was her time God would take her even if she was eating?

Just my thoughts


Melissa-Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are.
Re: Terri Schiavo #32345 03/24/05 09:45 PM
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Kristi, not that it makes the slightest difference in the larger picture of this horrible situation, she has no money for him to be after to speak of. Watching many programs with different views and perspectives these past few days it has come to light there is $40,000.00 in some form. I didn't pay enough attention to hear it's source. It was also made clear that that money was gone. It will pay a very small portion of legal expenses. His and her parents legal fees are in the millions. A mojority of the attorneys that have worked on either side or organizations have done so for no fee. You are correct though about her being used. It's just not by her husband.

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