I've been guilty of it. Not very often...in fact only really for a few months. But I was guilty nonetheless...

I know that it's wrong for a man to look at a woman with lust in his heart. He's allready sinned. And some men will look at anything of the opposite sex no matter how they are dressed...but...doesn't the way a man looks at a woman sometimes have to do with the way a woman presents herself??? I know it has to. Isn't the woman partially responsible for the way she dresses?

I've heard it from so many different sides..."well, I should have the right to dress however I want, and if you don't like it, don't look"... But I find it hard to give any credibility to that statement, because I think if she didn't want people to look, she wouldn't dress that way.

I've heard that it's all in the motives (even in a youth church group, I heard this said). God knows your heart. And if you wore that mini skirt just because you like the way you felt in it and not because you wanted a guy to look at you, then it's okay to wear that mini-skirt, thong bikini, etc.

I get downright angry, especially in church, when I see women dressing provocitavely. Yes, I get irritated no matter where I see it...but in church?? The last thing my husband should be looking at is her mid-drift while he's trying to sing "Pure and Holy". And yet I've heard the angle, "well your husband needs to do some soul-searching if he's having trouble keeping his eyes where they belong".

True, maybe...but shouldn't the one who's wearing the skimpy outfit to church be doing some soul searching if she's having trouble keeping her navel where it belongs???

I've had to repent for the few times that I've dressed (to go anywhere) less than conservatively. I did so for the benefit of my husband, but in doing so, I probably caused other women's husbands to look at me in a way that I would not want my husband to look at another woman. Or if I didn't cause it, maybe I allowed it or encouraged it.

I know the world is gonna dress how they wanna...but aren't we supposed to hold ourself to higher standards? I think that we (the church) are way too lax in this area...

Where do we draw the line, though? I mean...we don't want to tell people who are just getting involved in church that they have to dress a certain way...I understand that...but shouldn't those in leadership or even those who witness to non-believers set an example? Or am I way too from the Stone Ages???

I agree with you and say that the woman is partially responsible. I see a lot of women in my office wearing skirts and dresses that are way too short in my opinion. One of the girls is in my department. She has also had a breast enlargement and wears very revealing tops.

I agree that one should not entice, BUT read about Joseph and Potiphars wife. He could have used the "she enticed me" theng as anexcuse but he didn't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Genesis 39: 7 and after a while his master's wife took notice of Joseph and said, "Come to bed with me!"

8 But he refused. "With me in charge," he told her, "my master does not concern himself with anything in the house; everything he owns he has entrusted to my care. 9 No one is greater in this house than I am. My master has withheld nothing from me except you, because you are his wife. How then could I do such a wicked thing and sin against God?" 10 And though she spoke to Joseph day after day, he refused to go to bed with her or even be with her.

11 One day he went into the house to attend to his duties, and none of the household servants was inside. 12 She caught him by his cloak and said, "Come to bed with me!" But he left his cloak in her hand and ran out of the house. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">While that is an extreme example it clearly demonstrates that if a man is serving God than he can remove homself from a situation. Ladies, we simply do not HAVE to look it is a choice. Granted sometimes it is more difficult than others but still a choice. You should hold us to higher expectations, please do not lower the bar. (Also give us grace (and a swift elbow) when we do gawk all slack jawed because someone walks by virtually naked)

God bless!

Well, being a teenager i obviously have an opinion but it may not be the one everyone would expect. Growing up i always looked at people in malls and asked my mom why they didn't wear more clothes. When I get dressed in the morning i think of why i'm wearing that specific outfit, is it cause i like it and i know that i will be comfortable in it or is it cause i want someone to notice me. In all honesty if i want a guy(really only one specific guy that i know) to notice me, i wearing the same that i normally wear and cover up and sometimes i dress more conservative....why you may ask? because growing up i didn't like the way any woman looked with barely anything on so i never wanted to present myself that way. Now granted i've had moments wear when i was about 10 when my friends wanted me to wear clothes i didn't agree with and i gave in and wore them but not out in public cause i never wanted people to see me that way.

So i try to live by this moto everywhere i go "if i can raise my hands and my belly shows then i'm not wearing it and if i sit down and it comes more than a 1/2 an inch above my knee i'm not wearing it"

I think its both the guy and the girls choice, its the guys choice to look and the girls choice to dress where the guys gonna have an even harder time looking than normal. I must say I loved it when a few of my guy friends told me that they find it harder not to look when the girl is dress conservatively and looks amazing than when she is half dressed.

I don't think the way a person dresses is the only way of appearing immodest. I know people who dress modestly,conservatively, professionally. They look presentable and acceptable. Then they open their mouth. It becomes apparent real fast they are a well dressed whore. Both men and women.

hehe, well put.

What are your trying to say about me UKC????

"Isn't the woman partially responsible for the way she dresses?"

The woman (or man) is wholly responsible for the way she/he dresses unless someone else is putting the clothes on her/him (she's too young, old or invalid). Skin does draw the eye, no matter how you try to not look at stuff like that. Those in leadership roles should definitely set the example for others. We have pretty relaxed standards compared to other churches when it comes to dress, but that's the population we're reaching. Dressing down doesn't mean trying to wear as little as possible.

One thing I love about my wife (and girlfriend, before september) is that she always dresses modestly, and in good taste. She has classic good looks tho and wearing a paper sack wouldn't make her look any worse or better

For guys wanting to look tho, that paper sack won't slow them down much.

Didn't slow you down a bit did it?

nice to hear from the guys about this topic. kudos! worldly chaps get offended or patronize, then justify their bad self. I prefer to dress conservative too, and overlooked either way. yet still used to draw every pervert regardless of modesty. church goin too, not just bar scum. they are usually porn addicts and regulars at strip clubs too. sad!

then again, having low ego draws them too whatever a woman wears. implants and low tops are obvious to be noticed. if you just wanna fill out a dress-thats fine-but dont act like anna nicole. yes, she is what worldly men want. as a trophy. but she is no monroe!

sometimes the lower the ego, shorter the skirt and lower the blouse[been guilty of that one-oops]. why not befriend this person and give her advice to keep her alive. ? look at the lady who washed feet of Jesus-he didnt judge-only helped. we should follow that example , yes it is hard not to overlook and even be jealous. human nature.

I'm reading this book right now and it kinda talks about appearance and how people judge us by what we wear. One of the girls in the book is any amazing christian and totally sweet but she dresses like a punk rocker, she doesn't do it to make people angry or anything but she does it cause she likes the way she looks and she truly believes God can use the way she dresses to reach a whole different crowd of people. I personally think thats awesome. I personally could never do that cause well i'm pretty much known as the preppy girl which i don't mind...but I think God can use the way we look to reach different people.

I was a bit embarassed by my top last night. didnt realize[until in restroom solo], that my bra showed thru. not intentional. going to this bash was last minute decision. no wonder the ladies were a bit aloof? more than usual. wasnt trying to show any skin. espec my xtra rolls. hahaha I never wear a bikini even in youth. too conservative. its my upbringin.

should I let it go or just email the gal who invited me and ask? maybe I was more outgoing and it shocked em? thats possible-thanks to natural prozac and too much caffeine. my legs hurt. whoa.

I would just let it go. Chances are nobody noticed except for you, and if they did, it probably didn't give them reason to be aloof. I was a very self conscious person, and when I walked into a room, I felt as if everyone there was tearing me down bit by bit with their eyes, just LOOKING for something wrong with me. Maybe I have a hair that fell out of place and I look bad or maybe I missed a button even though I checked and double checked. Maybe I accidentally licked off my lipstic in the car and I don't look just like I did last time I looked in the mirror. Mabye I have a booger hanging out of my nose, maybe I stepped in something...did I remember to put on deoderant? Look at that guy across the room...He's laughing. I must have done something embarassing. Look, that girl is glaring at me. She must think I walk funny. *DARN* I haven't been sucking in since I walked in this place...or standing up straight. But I don't want to stand up too straight...it will be obvious that I'm trying to stand up straight and people will think that I'm sticking my chest out and....

All this would go through my head in the first 20 seconds or so of walking into any room full of people. When I would leave, I would analyze everyhthing that everyone else did/said and thought it had something to do with me. Any negative comment must have been toward me. Any negative attitued, whether imagined or real...was a result of the way I looked, acted, spoke...etc. Then I realized that most people don't even notice me! HA! And that most of the time when I think people are aloof it's because I'm the one being aloof because I'm too nervous/shy/eccentric to walk up and say hi. People who do notice me think I'm snobby sometimes, because I will look at a person and be too self conscious to smile or nod...I'll just walk on by for fear that if I do smile or nod and they don't smile or nod back, I'll look stupid.

Crazy, no? SO...maybe, just maybe those people who you thought were looking down on you weren't looking at you at all...or maybe they were, but since you didn't make an attempt to be sociable...well, somebody has to start the conversation, no? You may have looked as if you'd rather be left alone...Or maybe they were too busy worrying about their top to notice yours...? Just a thought...


As far as appearance...I don't really have a problem with dressing punk or goth or metal or whatever you want to dress up as to reach a certain audience. As long as you're in the guidelines of modesty, I am not bothered. But I'm sure that girl wouldn't dress in a leather dominatrix boustier to reach people for Christ...I don't see where it's any different for women in the church to dress in cleavage popping, middrift. There's just no way it could help their cause...unless their cause is to find someone will lay hands on them...

good one. thanks. Id try to join in a circle, but they walk off. i didnt think i was being rude. there was a gap in conversation. I did approach some and smile, say hi etc. others just have their cliques' regardless. maybe they are afraid to step outside their circle and look foolish? interesting perspective! i did walk into their s. class solo. this summer. that took guts? USUALLY HAPPY GO LUCKY, BUT NOT A FLIRT. maybe i should have? [;

The hyper-self-analysis, that mostly goes away as you become more comfortable in yourself. I still find myself thinking like that when I have to walk on or off stage, but really can't do much about it, so whatever

Walk up straight, suck in, chin up, smile slightly, don't walk stiff like a soldier, don't glance too much at the pretty girls, blah blah blah. I don't like leaving the stage during the pastor's prayer, but maybe that would be best.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Steve:
Didn't slow you down a bit did it? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just a bit

is being conservative and modest the same? sometimes words say more than attire.

Conservative and modest are at least in the same family. I think you can still dress conservitavely and not modestly. I consider conservative dressing more in the lines of how flashy it is...but I could be wrong.

As far as modesty in clothing goes, what defines modest? Is a little cleavage okay? Or if the shirt is skin-tight but covers cleavage does that mean it's too risque? What about pants? I mean...they can be really form fitting without being tight...where's the line? Or is it all in your intentions? Who determines what is modest and what is too over the top?