</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We have to be willing to be clay.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Embie, most of the time my name is mud....


Hey A3, Here is my take on "looking" I have a real issue with is from a respect standpoint. (guys or gals) there is a very clear line of seperation that starts at the point that you see a person, say in my or your hubby's case a woman, and that we decide she is pretty in one form or another. Anything after that is not right. Now that doesn't mean that you can't ask him "don't you think her hair is pretty?" and he can observe and make a comment. BUT he or I should not say to ourselves or outloud "Man she is hot" and simply keep looking because 90 to nothing the thoughts that will enter our brains are WRONG if we keep looking. The flip side works for women too.

The sin issue aside ]
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Matthew 5:27“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There is a huge respct issue to resolve. I cannot imagine a more disrespectful thing that you could do to a loved spouse than walk through a store or some other place a gawk. To me that is really low. Honesty moment... I am male, I am a visual creation and it does happen from time to time and I have to rebuke myself. But I am on guard and my wife knows I am. It is not something that I beleive is OK and I do not think that spouses should "put up with it"


God bless!

Well, he doesnt gawk. what he does is notice them, and i say something along the lines of,"you thought she was pretty huh ?" and he agrees, and we go on. but i dont realize how "out of style" i am until i see pictures someone has taken of me recently. Man! What a frumpy chica! It is a personal insecurity thing. I know he would never pursue anyone and i know he rarely notices if a female likes him. What i want to know is when is it something that i really need to take a second look at ? i might be making it more of an issue than he even considers. i mean all men look, no biggie, but when can you tell he is looking cause i dont look good enuf to satisfied his eyes or is he just looking cause he is human ?

This is one of our biggest battles. Unfortunately, it hasn't always stopped at an "appreciative glance" in our relationship. God is good, though, and He has done some big changes in my husband's heart. One thing I learned in the course of the toughest times that we went through is that a man can have a gorgeous, physically attractive, physically fit, in-style woman and still look hard at other women.

I mean look at Hollywood, for example. How many of us [women] have wished that we could look like this actress or that model...and yet look at the divorce rate among the famous. Pamela, Baywatch babe, beautiful body, pretty face...drueld over by millions of men all over the world...and her husband was very unfaithful. I could list more, but you get my point. That is going to a far extreme (actually, physically being unfaithful) whereas you say that your man just appreciates pretty women. But trust me, it could have nothing to do with you whatsoever. Men are visual creatures. Some men choose not to control their animal instincts, some choose to take their thoughts captive. But the thought is still there. They may be married, but they aren't dead...and the grass always seems greener even if your lawn is perfectly manicured.

That having been said, however...I will say that we, as wives, have a certain responsibility to our husbands. In the beginning stages of our relationship we put on the extra makeup and make sure the hair is just so and try to look our best for him. But as time goes by and we get more comfortable, we tend to let that slip a bit. I'm not saying we should be like the Stepford Wives...always made up and wearing dresses...blah blah, never let him see you au natural. But I do think that we should try to dress up as often as we can just for him. Even if you have no plans of leaving the house, what harm would it do to get all prettied up during the week just for his benefit? It really doesn't take much time. I mean, most of us spend that much time doing something unproductive that could be cut out in order to make him feel special.

This all isn't coming from someone who's been a stay at home mom for very long, either. I've worked full time for the duration of our marraige until just a few weeks ago. Generally, I would go "scrubby" to work (no makeup, hair pulled back) and then come home and fix up while I was cooking dinner and waiting for him to get home from work. Not every day, but as often as I could. What did that say to him? It said that I don't care what anyone else thinks of me...I think you are special and I want you to know that I spent extra time gettin' pretty just for you.

Now, from the viewpoint of a stay at home mom...I know that there are women out there that dress up every day. Some of them do so for their jobs, and some of them do so just because they prefer to always look their best. Nothing wrong with that. I've just never been that woman. I prefer comfort over beauty. But, knowing that my husband is going out into a world full of other women who look their best...is the last image I want him to see of me every morning a robe and pj's with bed-head hair and no makeup, morning breath and slippers? Not particularly...So is it really gonna hurt for me to get up with him and at least use some Listerine and a hairbrush before he goes out into the jungle? And what about when he comes home...after seeing other women looking good all day long...and I'm in sweatpants smelling like Comet with a half-fallen ponytail and a pair of rubber gloves...

Again, I'm not saying that it is always possible to take the time out to, nor should it always be necessary to get all made up and such. But more than once in a blue moon, it wouldn't hurt us to take the time out of our (sometimes busier than his) schedule and spend a little extra time making him remember why he was so attracted to us in the first place...

Some of us will never look like that 19 year old hard-bodied manicured....um, how can I think of a word for her....female....trying to be nice. But we can be our best. And if that means pushing away from the extra bon-bons while watching Oprah, or getting the non-buttered popcorn at the theatre and doing a few squats in the shower and maybe repeatedly lifting up the baby up, down up down...it couldn't hurt, could it?

If you do it right, it will

The same could be said for men, I'm sure, tho women for the most part aren't as visually oriented as men. There are very few men I know who've been married a while who haven't let themselves slip shape-wise. I think it's a bit unfair to expect improvement in the wives while we're busy eating that extra 20+ pounds on. That doesn't even count the health benefits.

But yeah, I agree both should look more inward if they are worried about their spouses looking more outward.

Originally posted by Allen: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you do it right, it will </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I musta been doin' something right this weekend on the slopes, 'cause I can still feel it.

Seriously, though...I agree that it's not fair of the man to expect something that he himself is not willing to do...ex: stay in shape. However, if we base everything in our marraige on what's fair, I think we are destined to fail. I can still do right in an area that he is falling in, and that may motivate him to do better. It may not, but I haven't lost anything by bettering myself in that one area. That could include physical appearance (which by the way is not near as important to me as other things, although I do think that my husband's the sexiest man alive...) or attitude (which I really need to work on lately) or spiritual growth, motivation to work around the house, parenting, and so on. Sometimes all it takes is a step in the right direction by one spouse to spurr the other one on. Sometimes it takes several steps...and sometimes it takes a mile. But that's what it's about, right? Being selfless and putting your spouse before yourself?

I think Allen put it best when he said that we need to look inward if we're worried about our spouse looking outward. That works on so many different levels...

Exactly grasshopper...

Bettering ourselves in any area, even if it doesn't spur the spouse to do the same, is still a positive. Setting the example before them usually does lead to coaxing them in the same way tho. Good topic.

For those who are night owls or early birds and your spouse is the other, how do you work it out?

i have no idea, my sister and her husband have that problem, and boy is it ! she likes to sleep in and he likes to hit the morning's first light. john and i used to be "off" ... we just solved it by having kids, that way you two are tired all the time. teehee.

that is ONE solution....

Dena and I struggled hard while I was on nights. It was just about the death of our relationship, the not being able to see each other and all that. I was OK with the schedule (glad to have a job that I could complain about...) but it was hardest on her. Me sleeping while she walked around on eggshells, trying to herd the kids and keep them quiet and try and have a successful real-estate career. It was almost too much.


I am the original morning person anyway. So now I am up and gone by 4:30am she is NOT a morning person but she is working one it

wow, reading this makes me appreciate being single again. I feel better now, thanks. anyway, for the 21 yr old here-best to stay single than settle DOWN for wrong reason[please family etc]. been there, cried that. best to be single than with wrong person. experience is good teacher, still-wish I could rewind and do things [or not do]differently!

I loved someone, but married for security too. not good enough reason to marry just for sake of marrying-fear of aging alone being one or having to move back home after job loss. go travel while your young and free. once you got kids-[i hear], priorities must change.

why not pretty up just for yourself-it looks like you care about yourself and not doing it to get something from your spouse ? SELF CONFIDENCE is sexy girls or guys. when you know you look good-it comes across as confidence right? the rest of us take prozac first, but IMsingle, so what do I know. my ex hubby never lived with me. -ergo mr. greencard had to go!

seems the nice guys with no sordid history ask about our past. thats why we end up with guys who match ours-so we dont feel like total dirtbags. look at pamela lee. mrs porn star married a rock star, I say they are equals!

Don't get me wrong, sometimes I dress up just for me. But, just like with kids, when you are married, your priorities change. You look at the interest of your spouse above your own. The Bible says you should. So what if I don't feel like dressing up. If it would make him feel good and important, then by golly something that simple is worth doing.

I wouldn't say that we really end up as equals as far as the bad past goes...but yes, guys with good pasts don't tend to end up with girls with bad past. It can happen the other way around, tho. My past wasn't near what my husband's past was... Women tend to be more naieve and rely on "I don't care who you are or where you've been or what you've done as long as you love me". It hurts us later, but we do rely more on our feelings when we are choosing a mate. Some of us do, anyhow. Most guys, on the other hand, tend to look at the business end of it more than the emotional end of it. How good/bad is her credit? Is she healthy and capable of supporting the family if something happens to me? Not saying that guys don't base the decision on emotions at all, but they are more detail oriented like that ususally whereas women tend to rely on the notion that "love will keep us together no matter what kind of weather."


But to answer the question about night owls and early birds...I am a nightowl. Big time. My husband can be, but when he's in his comfort zone, he goes to sleep whenever he gets sleepy which chould be at 6pm or 11pm (unless he get's stuck in front of the TV and somehow it suctions him in so deeply that it's like a tractor beam holding him hostage in his lazboy, in which case he will stay up until 4am watching Becker and infomercials. If I catch this travesty in progress, I save the day by turning the TV off during a comercial and coaxing him to bed. If I wait till the commercials are over, I usually have to sit and wait for the next set. Somehow it doesn't work to turn it off in the middle of the captivating dialogue in which he's engrossed). He has no trouble getting out of bed in the morning if he really has to, though; no matter what. Drives me batty. Me, on the other hand...I get my second wind about 11pm and want to remodel the house. But I don't care how early I get to sleep, my brain and body don't really really start functioning until 10am.
No real helpful hints here, though. I've had to compromise on my sleeping in due to necessity rather than niceness or selflessnes. Kids have to be to school at 8, I've had to be to work before 8 until recently...so I just try to get to bed as early as possible and sacrifice those precious evening hours which I could be doing something extremely productive like laundry or rearranging the kitchen. *sigh* Hopefully the urge to be busy in the evening hours will fade once the holidays are over, everything is back to normal, and the kids are off to school, husband is off to work, and I'm here during the daytime hours to do those things that I've had to cram in during the evening for so long...We'll see.

good point. guys are more ''how will this effect me''[her past]. my past did haunt one guy and i was naive beforemeeting him as far as taking care of myself. he suffered for my mistake and I lost the relationship. [it was temporary-but still hurts the same to know my past was at fault for his leaving me]. sometimes its not just a cold sore gals. as I said before bad boys only give you reason to run to nearest clinic-instead of giving you flowers and candy.[sometimes both].

guys hide their past from girls too. and good girls suffer for it! AS well as our future relationships. ''no glove-no love'' is a good rule or abstain altogther saves more grief. if you have any doubts-dont be with him. not even small favors.

happy to say ddf today, and been celibate since. not always by choice. i prefer to be checked out BEFORE meeting anyone new, not wait til its serious and then lose another one due to my ignorance. my family did not discuss this, only birds and bees. it was just my folks generation to be hush.it was almost taboo.

My mom told me everything about sex except for what I needed to know.

Seriously, my mom was so open about sex that she used to say, "I'm going in the other room to 'share' with daddy." Share what? OH, darn. I know now...and I regret having the memory of those revalations.

My mom was very very open. In 2nd grade, I had this little boy who liked me. I wasn't interested in any mushy stuff...but he wrote me a letter one day that said "we may be too young to date but we're not too young to kiss". I didn't really think about it one way or the other...whatever. Kiss? Nah...do you wanna play 4sqare or teather ball instead? That looks like much more fun to me...But alas, I showed it to a jealous vixen named Marcy; she liked the boy who liked me (Marcy actually now teaches at my little girl's elementary haha) and she told the teacher before I could dispose of it. The teacher confronted me. I couldn't lie. I gave the note to her, my parents were called. My mom rented VIDEOS!!! True Love Waits videos...Birds and the bees videos. Sheesh! I just wanted to play dodge ball! Second grade for crying out loud. I didn't even know what "sharing" meant at that time...nor did I care!

In all of my mother's careful planning and beating and lecturing and video renting...I still made a few mistakes. So I guess we can't blame it all on mom and dad for lack of education...or maybe I can. What she should have showed me were videos of childbirth, pain, trauma...pictures of VDs... That may have set me straight before I got into the game. Hehe...then again, maybe I would have joined a convent...and I would be signing off as "Sister Mary Michelle".

right on. ty for reply. I dont blame parents, it all they knew to say at the time. im sure their folks were same way. sometimes emotions overuled my sanity regardless of info later. but they were MY mistakes. bad choices have consequences even after repenting. sometimes takes yrs for any symptoms to show, thendamage already done before getting treatment. such as ruining my fertility chances. some of that is medical too[rx]. antibiotics doesnt heal emotional scars!

amen, sistah. And your future mate/current mate has to deal with the emotional carnage left behind from your past. Anybody found this to be true? How do you deal with your spouse's past and visa versa?