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What do you expect #31158 07/19/04 03:51 PM
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Jusselin Offline OP
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lets say you just got saved maybe through radio or TV ...now its time to look for a church...what would you expect from that church...what would you expect from the services...what would you expect spiritually and what would you expect for your kids out of this church?


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Re: What do you expect #31159 07/19/04 03:58 PM
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Do you really want me to take a whack at this question?


I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the otheró This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him! -- Joseph Smith History 1:17
Re: What do you expect #31160 07/19/04 04:23 PM
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please do joel i mean spiriyually though and i know that you are right in your spirit...please though i need all the answeres i can get and fast


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Re: What do you expect #31161 07/19/04 05:22 PM
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any minute now...i have a good feeling il get an answer
lol tongue


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Re: What do you expect #31162 07/19/04 06:47 PM
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Well, there's a lot I expect.

First and foremost - redemption and resurrection through Jesus Christ must be preached

Because Christ is foremost and pre-eminant in our faith. I expect that the church be organized by Christ and I would expect the leadership of the church to be organized along the same pattern of leadership that Christ established. (Ephesians 4:11-14)
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It was [Christ] who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I expect the church to bear the name of Christ, because the Church is in essence His and He should be it's leader(Ephesians 5:23)
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I expect the teachings of that church to be largely derived from the teachings of the Apostles and Prophets (Ephesians 2:19-20)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would expect the leaders of the church to speak with and claim divine authority. I want them to be authorized by God to tell me what they have to say - otherwise their preaching would be worthless. (Hebrews 5:4-10)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">4No one takes this honor upon himself; he must be called by God, just as Aaron was. 5So Christ also did not take upon himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,
"You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.[1] "[2] 6And he says in another place,
"You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek."[3]
7During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would be uncomfortable if I found out that the church was the means of income for the Pastor as I find that to be out of harmony with Biblical Christianity (Acts 20:33-35)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">32"Now I commit you to God and to the word of his grace, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified. 33I have not coveted anyone's silver or gold or clothing. 34You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions. 35In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.' </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">(John 10:11-13)
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would expect the church to call upon me to be baptized as a symbol of my commitment to Christ and the entering into a covenant with Jesus that I will follow him and exercise faith in him. I would also expect that baptism to be by full immersion in water (Matt 3:13-16)
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">13Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?"
15Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented.
16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Following my baptism I would expect that the church bestow upon me the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands according to biblical precedent. (Acts 8:14-17)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into[3] the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money 19and said, "Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
20Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would expect that spiritual gifts were manifest such as faith, healing, casting out evil spirits and revelation. (Mark 3: 14-15)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">14He appointed twelve--designating them apostles[2] --that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach 15and to have authority to drive out demons.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And Amos 3:7
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing
without revealing his plan
to his servants the prophets.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would expect that they would teach doctrines that are biblically consistent and specifically that they would preach truth regarding the nature of God and Jesus Christ - i.e. that they are separate beings. (John 17:11; 20:17)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one. John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' " </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would expect them to teach that God and Jesus Christ both have a body - according to Biblical precedent (Luke 23:36-39; Acts 1:9-11; Heb 1:1-3)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Luke 24
36While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."
37They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

Acts 1
9After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
10They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

Hebrews 1
1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I expect that the leaders of the church be called by God and authorized to do his work according to the biblically established pattern (Heb 5:4; Ex 28:1; 40:13-16)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Hebrews 5
4No one takes this honor upon himself; he must be called by God, just as Aaron was.

Exodus 28
1 "Have Aaron your brother brought to you from among the Israelites, along with his sons Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, so they may serve me as priests. (called by God's prophet)

Exodus 40
13 Then dress Aaron in the sacred garments, anoint him and consecrate him so he may serve me as priest. 14 Bring his sons and dress them in tunics. 15 Anoint them just as you anointed their father, so they may serve me as priests. Their anointing will be to a priesthood that will continue for all generations to come." 16 Moses did everything just as the LORD commanded him.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I expect the church to be able to explain why they don't practice every single principle taught in the Bible or I would expect them to practice every single thing taught in the Bible - even such wacky things as baptism for the dead (1 Corinthians 15:29)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">29Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Personally, I'm more given to reverance and awe in my worship than I am to clapping and dancing - so revernce would be nice - although not essential.

I would expect that the leader of any congregation generally fit the description of a Bishop (Overseer in the NIV) given by Paul to Timothy in 1 Timothy 3.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer,[1] he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would expect the church to require me to pay tithing - and by tithing I mean nothing less than 10% on my annual income. (Malachi 3:8-11)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse-the whole nation of you-because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The church I attend would have to be a missionary/evangelical/proselytizing church anything less would be un-biblical (Matthew 28:19-20)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[1] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Lastly, I would expect the church to rise above all other churches in terms of the manifestation of faith that I see in the good done by the church. Matthew 7:18-21
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Simple enough really - it's all there in the Bible and if it's in the Bible it should obviously be found in the church.


I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the otheró This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him! -- Joseph Smith History 1:17
Re: What do you expect #31163 07/19/04 07:14 PM
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that was great Joel it really was....it was well worth the wait...i just have one question.

I would expect the leaders of the church to speak with and claim divine authority. I want them to be authorized by God to tell me what they have to say - otherwise their preaching would be worthless. (Hebrews 5:4-10)
could you please explain in terms i can understand what this means?


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Re: What do you expect #31164 07/19/04 08:13 PM
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In Hebrews 5:4 we read that "No one takes this honor upon himself; he must be called by God, just as Aaron was." The honor this is speaking of is the authority to act in the name of God or to be a Priest, High Priest, or an Apostle or Prophet for that matter.

Aaron, we read in Exodus 28:1 was called by a prophet of God (Moses) to the Priesthood.

In other words, unless a Prophet of God issues the calling to the person, I can't be certain that they are actually commissioned by God to preach - hence I can't be certain that what they preach will be the truth.

That does not mean that we should all sit around and do nothing waiting to be called by a Prophet of God to do a good work - rather, we should always be anxiously engaged in good causes and in promoting Christ - but the establishing of a church and acting as a shepherd over a congregation requires a little bit more - in my opinion.


I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the otheró This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him! -- Joseph Smith History 1:17
Re: What do you expect #31165 07/19/04 09:19 PM
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well...how do these prophets get called that tell other people they're called?...its kinda like the chicken and the egg....you know how it works but why doesnt it make since...see what i mean


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Re: What do you expect #31166 07/19/04 09:56 PM
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great info though joel any one else???


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Re: What do you expect #31167 07/20/04 03:45 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by New_Era_20:
lets say you just got saved maybe through radio or TV ...now its time to look for a church...what would you expect from that church...what would you expect from the services...what would you expect spiritually and what would you expect for your kids out of this church? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would expect a message of Faith, Hope and Love, with an emphasis on Love. I'd also expect in this message that God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

I could get more wordy, but the need isn't there. As long as the focus remains on Jesus and our relationship with Him, I'd attend and bring my family too smile


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- I don't need things, I need people - mb © 2002
Re: What do you expect #31168 07/20/04 05:16 AM
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I like the things that I read above.


As a NEW convert I think I would want something exciting that would probably look like what drew mw to Christ in the first place. Since I have kids I would want a dynamic childrens ministry but would come with no real expectations other than that. (being new and all)


"I'm part of the fellowship of the unashamed. I have the Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast. I have stepped over the line. The decision has been made - I'm a disciple of HIS.
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Re: What do you expect #31169 07/20/04 09:42 PM
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good stuff what if you didnt exactly find it all there would you try and help change it or simply leave.....


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Re: What do you expect #31170 07/20/04 10:22 PM
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Depends, if I'm new I probably have no place to change it. If I've been there a while it might be more palatable to discuss it with the pastor. In either case, I'd never go to another member to try and change something without talking with the pastor first - he/she is charged with leading the flock, and my limited perspective on how things are done is just that, limited.


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Re: What do you expect #31171 07/21/04 03:42 AM
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Being NEW again I would probably just leave and shop around til I found a place that I felt welcome and none of the "stuff" the church did felt odd or uncomfortable. (keeping in mind that I would be inexperienced as to what was right and wrong)


"I'm part of the fellowship of the unashamed. I have the Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast. I have stepped over the line. The decision has been made - I'm a disciple of HIS.
www.Real-Men.net
Re: What do you expect #31172 07/21/04 05:37 AM
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Short answer. Use discernment. God gave it to you so you best be using it. You can feel the holy sprit in a godly church and a dark presence in a church that has strayed from godís word.

Even so, no matter what church you go to you should be on your guard. No amount of assurance that the preacher has a legitimate calling can take the place of checking your bible to make sure each lesson is biblically founded. If it isnít you have found yourself a false prophet.

That said. There are lots of good churches that preach the full gospel. So find one that meets your needs and fits your personality. Do you want to see the joy? The reverence? Do you want it fun for the kids? Mellow for the old folks? Do you want SLS or Everybody Duck to play every week or do you want the preacher to sing to his wife at the piano? Do you want your church seeker friendly? Or do you more meat than that?

And finally the most important thing to remember is that is really doesnít matter which building you walk into on Sunday. Church is the fellowship of believers, which means that we have a small church going right here in Praise.Cafť It matters how much you learn and grow. Not where you attend.

Re: What do you expect #31173 07/21/04 12:12 PM
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good stuff i thought the subject would draw more of a conversation but i guess we pretty much look basically for the same stuff


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Re: What do you expect #31174 07/22/04 02:59 AM
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Amen to Ryan... N_E, you haven't answered your own question yet tongue


- Allen [Linked Image]
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Re: What do you expect #31175 08/09/04 07:17 PM
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i dint really know what to expect...i mean i do...but like i cant say it like yall can...i dunno


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Re: What do you expect #31176 08/10/04 03:52 AM
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See that is just it, we were all looking backwards and speaking from hindsight (which is 20/20 by the way)

It is hard to capture/recapture that combination of fire and ignorance of scripture/innocence once you are off of milk, so to speak. Hebrews 5:13,14


"I'm part of the fellowship of the unashamed. I have the Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast. I have stepped over the line. The decision has been made - I'm a disciple of HIS.
www.Real-Men.net
Re: What do you expect #31177 08/10/04 01:17 PM
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I don't know Steve.

If I had recently come to Christ, and had little to no church background, I would do some serious, serious research and prayer before deciding where to attend church. I think I might even come up with many of the things I listed completely from scratch.


I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the otheró This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him! -- Joseph Smith History 1:17

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