</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Originally posted by ericm:
Just a thought, but if God only had a body while in his ministry here on earth, then how do you explain the creation? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">come on guys my brother (who is 13) was having this conversation with other twelve year olds.... God is God...and somethings we wont know until we get to heaven...we can all assume...but you can already break down that word and get my point lol...but any way.... as far as the good and evil thing goes...i dont know what to believe...i do believe though that God gave us free will to do whatever we want...and i f we choose to be evil then thats or choice...and sumthings we create....like rape...murder...and war... i refuse to believe that God created any of that...i just think that what God wants to be pure and holy satan comes along and twists some ones mind...and then they make the choice to be used as a vessel ....for either God or the devil free will is the key

one more thing

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Originally posted by Allen:
I really don't think God is still a bush </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">but i do believe he wants us to vote for him...

And philosophers and theologians have been having this debate for centuries. That doesn't make an exploration of God and his characteristics futile.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">God is God...and somethings we wont know until we get to heaven</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And yet the Bible teaches us that in the past God's mysteries were revealed unto his disciples. Why is that not so today? Are we merely to throw up our hands and say, "who cares?"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Joel33:
And philosophers and theologians have been having this debate for centuries. That doesn't make an exploration of God and his characteristics futile. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">no it just means they have nuthing else better to do so they give twelve year olds...and sadly us ...sumthin tuh talk about


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Are we merely to throw up our hands and say, "who cares?" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">sure why not...who cares i mean knowing wether or not God has one of those moles on his cheek like Cindy Crawford...or Enrique Iglasious
(hope i spelled that right) isn't gunna get me to heaven any faster than knowing wether or not Jesus would be wearing Doc Martin's or Deer Stag nowa dayz...

huh lol this seemed tuh work in the last thread .....
(clears throat)
How Bout them Lakers

If you don't want to participate in a discussion about God's characteristics, you don't have to.

1 Corinthians 2:7-12
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath bprepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This scripture tells us that even though there are many things that God knows and man does not know. He has given unto us his spirit so that we can come to know the mysteries of God.

So far the discussion has not been heated in the least and I've found it very interesting. Others, who aren't uncomfortable disecting their belief to understand its core, also apparently find it interesting.

In regards to God being a bush - it didn't happen. At least not in the Bible.

Here's the KJV account Exodus3:2-4 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And the NIV account: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">2 There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. 3 So Moses thought, "I will go over and see this strange sight-why the bush does not burn up."
4 When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!"
And Moses said, "Here I am." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Both accounts concur that there were at least four different elements involved here: 1. a fire, 2. a bush, 3. an angel, and 4. the voice of God. Nowhere do these verses imply that God was the bush. Rather that God spoke to Moses from within the bush. Kind of like how it's pretty clear that the angel of the Lord wasn't the fire, but within the fire.

As for God being a donkey: Numbers 22:28 from the NIV </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Clearly God only allows the donkey to speak its own mind and does not become a donkey himself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Joel33:
If you don't want to participate in a discussion about God's characteristics, you don't have to.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">lol...your funny man...it was a joke... guess you didnt see the 's ....just laugh at it bro...its better than steam......

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Originally posted by Joel33:
Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly God only allows the donkey to speak its own mind and does not become a donkey himself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">clearly God does speak through the donkey.....if God let the donkey speak on its own then why did he have to Open the Donkeys mouth
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">and no one said God was the donkey.....as if to magically appear and talk to Balaam...but like allen said
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> God used many forms to communicate with humans </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

If the Lord was speaking through the Donkey the translators of the Bible would not have applied the feminine pronoun of "She." The translators of the Bible and authors of the Bible are fairly consistent in referring to the Lord as a male.

Fairly pointless at any rate.

Question: Do people/Christians feel like it would somehow limit God's power were he to inhabit a body?

never mind Joel...you remind me of my brother seriously....he wont leave anything alone...until he proves himself right...and you cant proove him wrong because in his mind he is right...i think i will just leave the mani topics like this up to the big guns...al and steve.....

you remind me also of a joke joel...these scientist went to God and said "Anything you can make...so can we!!!" God bent down and grabbed sum dirt and created man....when the scientist bent down to grab some dirt God said "Hey ... get your own dirt!!!"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Question: Do people/Christians feel like it would somehow limit God's power were he to inhabit a body? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">or does Joel want us/christians to feel that we limit Gods power? see its a thinker

later bro im off to community service....

Actually, no - I believe God does have a body and even if he didn't it would limit his power.

I'm just trying to understand why Christians are so reluctant to contemplate God with a physical body like their own, but glorified.

Really, I want to understand why people believe what they believe. In my opinion, if you believe something about God because of one verse in the Bible - you have to be able to reconcile it with with all the other verses about God. I have that same challenge with my own belief as I have to reconcile scriptural verses that say things like John 4:24 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">or 1 John 4:8 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One verse says God is a spirit the other says that God is a feeling. Both were written by the same author and so somehow they must reconcile. Moreover - the verses Allen cited from Revelations, also by the same author, describe in detail body parts of God. All of it has to reconcile with each and every seemingly contradictory point. That is what it means to understand Biblical verse within the greater context of the Bible. You'll notice that personally, I'm not referring to any Mormon scripture or introducing anything Mormon into this discussion.

So who or what is God?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> One verse says God is a spirit the other says that God is a feeling. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You'll have a hard time with that one as your basis that love, used there as agape, is NOT a feeling.

The basic fallacy in our world is that love is a feeling when the Bible really says it is a responsibility. We as Christians are commanded to love. No where did God ask us if we felt like it. Love is not a feeling but rather a response or action we do in obedience to God's command.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Question: Do people/Christians feel like it would somehow limit God's power were he to inhabit a body? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I as a Christian do not think it would limit His power if He were to inhabit a body, I happen to believe that we were made male and female in His image and likeness...Spirit, body and soul.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I happen to believe that we were made male and female in His image and likeness...Spirit, body and soul.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is interesting. Can you explain it a little bit more?

I think it's intresting that you believe that love is a feeling.

Can you explain that a little more?

My point wasn't to say that God is merely a feeling or that love was merely a feeling and not a commandment and an act. I was just pointing out that my own belief system needs to take into account these descriptive terms for God. I do see your point about to Love being a commandment and I agree. However, I guess I would say that Love, like God, is a multifaceted concept, in that it can be a commandment, feeling, or an action - perhaps deserving its own thread.

What you said was interesting to me because it sounded like you were going against the UKC/Allen tide. I was just curious. Do you literally believe that being created in God's image body, spirit, and soul indicates anything about God's own traits? If so what? Does he too have a body? either spiritual or physical? I was just looking for an elaboration.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Actually, no - I believe God does have a body and even if he didn't it would limit his power. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">just qurious but could you explain juss a lil mo pleez


and for debate Joel....if we were made in Gods image then where does male or female derive from ...which one is God's image scince you believe God has a chest what kind...is it like Allen's or Pam Anderson's lol ...while joking around though i would like to hear your thoughts???

Well, the question wasn't directed to me, but as I already said, I believe we have a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. Therefore, you should be able to figure out who is in whose image. Males are in our father's image, and females are in our mother's image.

so you believe that we (males) were created in Gods image and females were created in Godess's image right?....sort of a more than one God kinda thing....either that or mother nature and either one aint right...

Eric, not being a conventional type christian anymore, I don't understand heavenly mother. Do you mean a sperate entity than God? Or do you mean an extention of God? Or do you refer to Mary, the mother of God? Having been Catholic, I know that Mary is thought of as our heavenly mother. She has a more important place than in other denominations but not on the same level as God The Father, God the Son or God the Holy Ghost. Frankly, in my usual unconventional way, I don't think form matters at all when speaking /thinking of God. God is God, and nothing can impede or bolster His abilities. If we looked like a dog or a martian is that what God would look like? I know it's out there and may seem silly but in spite of the words made us in His own image, I suppose he can be in any form he chooses and could have made us to look any way he wanted us to. Since whatever He makes,
is His, our physical appearance seems unimportant to me as does His.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Joel33:
I have that same challenge with my own belief as I have to reconcile scriptural verses that say things like John 4:24
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">or 1 John 4:8
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One verse says God is a spirit the other says that God is a feeling. Both were written by the same author and so somehow they must reconcile. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Both scripture can describe the same being, one doesn't make the other untrue.

God is a spirit - tells us His physical being is a spirit.

God is love - describes His spirit and/or His attitude, personality, etc.

I am American, I am also Irish, Scottish, French and German. I am also Texan. I am also caucasian. I am also Christian. I am also 6' 2.5". I am also 257lbs. I am also sitting up. I am also tired. I am also eating the last of this brownie cheescake. I am also on a diet. I am also engaged. I am also male.

Many many many more also's... none of which exclude the other and most of which describe that aspect of me completely and some of which describe the whole me and some of which describe just a small part of me.

I believe God is that complex and so much more beyond our imagination. To put Him in the box of a physical glorified human body limits His omnipresence just to begin with. Is there any other scripture besides the one hazy one that says we were created in His image that you are extrapolating that He has a physical body? How does that co-exist with the above scripture that says He is a spirit?

Somebody please tell me where the scriptural evidence exists that there's a heavenly mother....

To be blunt, and also to paraphrase a quote found in an article I'm going to refer you to, the Bible does not explicitly refer to a mother in heaven, and neither does the Book of Mormon or Doctrine and Covenants. It has been revealed through modern-day prophets. Now, I know that since you don't believe in modern-day prophets, that you will find it very hard to accept a mother in heaven, and I realize that, and I'd rather not spend the time arguing it, since you will merely say, "Well, I don't believe that he was a prophet, so what he says has no authority." In any case, I would highly recommend everyone reading this article: Mother in Heaven . It contains many quotes from latter-day prophets that explain our belief. Even if you don't believe what they say, it will at least hopefully help you understand why Mormons believe this.