When you really love someone, you only want them to be happy. Right?

Well...what if what makes them happy at the time is detremental to them and those around them? Do you still go out of your way to give that person what they want? Or does the defenition of love need a possible tweaking? When you really love someone, you only want what's best for them?.

I apply that to my daughter daily...she may want that candy at 7:45 p.m., but I'm thinking bedtime is 8 and she has to get up early, and sugar makes you hyper not to mention rots your teeth...so I say no. It's because I love her that I say no. If I gave in, I would only be enabling her to indulge in a temporary satisfaction that could lead to longer term problems.

So why can't I apply that to my relationships with other people? Is my idea of love so distorted that I think that I must become the person who mends the broken fences after the damage is done, but I then give the person who tore down the fences to begin with a pair of gloves and a hatchet and point them in the direction of the next hapless pickett?

And more importantly, why can I not apply this same theory to my relationship with God? I get pouty and angry with Him when it seems that I'm beating my head against a brick wall asking for it to hurt less the next time my skull makes contact with the concrete...and it only seems to hurt more instead. What if He would just move that wall out of my way? Surely on the other side, there lies the happiness and peace of mind I've been struggling for. Like a fly trapped behind a screen door peering at freedom just through the impossible mesh I persist...and persist...and persist.

If He really loved me, would he let me just die right there at the wall rather than just removing the obstacle? Would He? Or possibly He's trying to protect me from what's on the other side...


Anyway, with all of these lame overused verbose and otherwise cliche' analogies, I'm really trying to talk myself in [or out of] making a decision. It's much easier to argue and discuss an issue with oneself rather than actually moving forward. Enabler, I...and procrastinator. Darn.

Girl meets boy. Boy knows many girls. Girl falls for boy. Boy likes the fact that girl does lots of stuff for him because she loves him so much. Boy really likes attention and having things served to him on a silver platter, so he tries to "do the right thing" and drop the many girls. Boy only does so because girl was enabling him to see the many other girls in the first place...but now boy feels like he's in too deep. Girl does too, but in a different way. Boy feels trapped. Girl feels hurt and angry because she is the cause of his resentment (or at least he would have her believe such). Boy thinks now that girl had this planned all along...such a cunning and manipulative scheme she must have concocted to use reverse psychology on him and say it was okay for him to see many women so that he would drop them all and see only her...only now when girl feels used to being the only girl, she is hurt worse when he wants to see many women. Boy takes this as a "changing of the rules" and now believes that girl has completely tricked him into seeing only her in the first place...and thus takes it out on her in many forms of verbal barrages and coldness but then follows up with much talk of mushy stuff, warm hugs and two dozen fresh red roses.

Does girl enable him to see other women and still keep her in the picture knowing that it will not only hurt her, but the women around him and him in the long run? Girl knows that it is inevitable with or without her...why not keep the little bit of comfort she has in knowing that at least he comes back to her?

Or does girl salvage the last bit of dignity that she has and say I love you enough to let you go make your own mistakes, but more importantly enough, I love myself enough to remove myself from this God-awful situation that I have strapped myself into for 6 months?

Girl knows...has known...what the right thing to do is. But she second guesses herself. After all, no relationship will ever be perfect. And she loves boy very much. Should she try to stand by her man no matter what and work through this just as if it were any other typical hard time that a couple faces? Is this as good as it gets?

Hey, we're celebrating Valentines Day, and on this day of cliche'd commercialized romance where only 'what have you done for me lately' seems to count, let's use one more for this topic:

"What's love got to do with it?"

Not to be cold, but I don't see love manifested here in your story. There may be fear of letting go, fear of the unknown, fear of being alone, fear, fear, fear... parts are disguised well - from nice flowers to clean home, but where's the love that is spoken of in the Bible?

here\'s a good place to start

This scripture not only speaks to how a husband and wife should love each other, but also speaks to the general concepts of love.

If you say 'but I know we're not together for the long term, so this 'husband/wife love' doesn't apply to us' - then please don't attach 'love' to the relationship... it's one of convenience and not really mutual love. Don't assume the role of the victim, understand you like the things he does do positively, weigh them against the negative aspects (and it sounds like there are plenty to choose from) and play the game or move on...

I/we enable others by saying 'poor baby' 'you poor thing' etc.... you are a big girl - decide what you are gonna put up with and either play back or rise above and move on to the bigger better deal God has for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by foreverchanged:
I get pouty and angry with Him when it seems that I'm beating my head against a brick wall asking for it to hurt less the next time my skull makes contact with the concrete...and it only seems to hurt more instead. What if He would just move that wall out of my way? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not that I know exactly what you're talking about, but I would have described situations I've been in in the past just like that. My conclusion is that yes, you can ask God to remove the wall for you but what good would that do? You won't learn anything from it! The key here is to see the big picture - how big/tall/wide is this wall and what's more important, what can I do to not end up banging my head against it again? There are indeed other paths to walk

Sometimes God taps us on the shoulder, and sometimes He uses a 2 x 4 upside the head to make His point.

I have prayed for you Michelle...I have prayed for whatever was necessary to bring you around. You know the answer...you have the strength.

If we always do the same things the same way, how can we ever expect anything but the same results?

You are worth so much more than this...

Enabling is a learned behavior. It can be unlearned too. Most people enable to not have conflict, have someone angry with them, be liked by people and many other reasons. Enabling is a selfish behavior. It cheats us of what we truly deserve and it allows others to continue thinking their behavior is alright. You're intelligent enough to know what you are doing. You know why you do things with your daughter. Simply apply the same reasoning to others. They may leave but why would you want them around anyhow? They're behaving childishly so they need to be handled like a child. You need to do what's best for them. You will NEVER fix anybody, you can ONLY fix yourself. Often enabling comes from low self-esteem and continues lowering it. There are groups that cn help you stop being an enabler and find your own selfworth or one on one counseling may be more appropriate. Doing nothing allow you to enable yourself to have the life you do. Is it the life you want? What you've been doing obviously doesn't work so I guess you need to do something different. The option is, doing nothing and leave things the way they are. Choice is yours. I hope you choose to have better for yourself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And more importantly, why can I not apply this same theory to my relationship with God? I get pouty and angry with Him when it seems that I'm beating my head against a brick wall asking for it to hurt less the next time my skull makes contact with the concrete...and it only seems to hurt more instead. What if He would just move that wall out of my way? Surely on the other side, there lies the happiness and peace of mind I've been struggling for. Like a fly trapped behind a screen door peering at freedom just through the impossible mesh I persist...and persist...and persist.

If He really loved me, would he let me just die right there at the wall rather than just removing the obstacle? Would He? Or possibly He's trying to protect me from what's on the other side...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or perhaps He is waiting for the fly to back off from the situation and take stock of the whole room and notice the open window not fifteen inches away. Perhaps God has closed a door and opened a window for you to fly through. Most often the way you go into a situation is not the way God would have you leave it!

Love enough to say no! Sometimes no to others sometimes no to yourself! That is God's love!

I can empathize with you about standing by your man and not abandoning him so to speak. I can understand all the things that you do for this person because you love him. However, it doesn't matter how much you love him though; it's not enough for the both of you.

Sorry for this cliche but I believe this person is not ready for a meaningful monogamous relationship. Not that it is possible but even if you are "perfect" in every way, the way you are and what you do has no bearing on the decisions that he makes.

A person can only be in control of his or her own decisions. You have a few options. However I think you know what the best option is for you and your daughter. Now I pray that you will eventually have that courage.

I'll continue to be here for you.

In Love
Your Friend

Hey girl, you forgot one cliche....

"Friends are friends forever, if the Lord's the Lord of them."

God has made the perfect man or woman for all of us. I have met Many people in my life that either I wanted to be Mrs. Right, or they wanted Me to be Mr. Right.

Sometimes I look back and thank God for unanswered prayers.

Other times I look at my past and thank God for the great friendships that they turned out to be.

But, in all times I have to be like Jonathan when he attacked the phillistines when He said "perhaps God will be there."

Meaning... Sometimes walk out in Faith knowing that if it blows up in your face, You gave it to God. We don't need to guess or second guess if we have faith in God and stand on His word.

And God doesn't make mistakes!!!


We hang on many times as Allen said, Because of fear... Don't let that fear keep you out of God's best. If said man is the one for said girl, and said girl (in Faith) walks away asking God to show her the way... If said man is the one wouldn't God bring them back?


innerdawg

Just to add my two cents..and Michelle please know that none of us here are judging you, we are all your friends and love you and anything we say is said out of our love for you...we hate the fact that you're going through what you are now..and I, having gone through a similar experience, though no where near as "traumatic" as yours is, know how hard it is to just walk away..but I also know that when you are ready you will find the strength to do what you know must be done...I mentioned to you in a pm that we all have our limits as to what/how much we are willing to put up with from someone we love...and our limits are individual...how we deal with things are also individual and it sounds good for us to sit up here and say "if someone treated me like that I would walk away", "I would never let someone do those things to me" etc...but ultimately what we say has little bearing...you have to find it in yourself to take control of your life and to stop letting yourself be manipulated and controlled...to stop letting this person make you feel inadequate and unworthy...if someone truly loved you they wouldn't hurt you like that...that is not what love is about...it's all fine and dandy to want to stand by your man..but note if he's with other women he is not and never has been your man so what are you standing around for, a few comforting words to appease you after he's screwed up..that's only a temporary fix (been there and through that)...take control and do what you know you need to do...if nothing else look at your daughter's reaction to this person...it's funny how children can pickup on the true character of people...whoever said "out of the mouth of babes" knew what they were talking about...for a child to feel so strongly...anyway know that whatever your decision your friends will always be here for you...remember you don't have to settle for anything...turn it over to Him and if it is His will that this relationship work then it will.....Love ya girl...Haze

Not enough time to reply to everyone, so I'll just go in order. Allen first...

I'm not trying to assume the role of victim here. If anything, I'm victim to my own selfishness. I did not go into this blindly...I went in knowing exactly what I was in for. I just didn't ever expect to end up feeling so strongly for this person. Love does have something to do with it. I'm not afraid of being alone, heck...I was alone for 5 years. I am afraid of loosing him, yes. Because I do love him...and yes, I do want forever out of this. This has been something that we have discussed, he and I...and he says that he wants us to spend the rest of our lives together...but he is not ready to commit yet. He kinda wants me on stand-by, and I have allowed myself to be okay with that.

Yes, I do get "perks" from this too...it's not a one sided relationship or I wouldn't be here. It just hurts terribly badly when it feels like I'm giving my all and it's not enough. To give everything that you have and be told that it's not quite good enough yet, well...that hurts. But yes, in most cases the good outweighs the bad, which is why I don't leave. The times I consider giving up are the times when I am hurting the most. But in those times I also remember that in every relationship there are problems...things to work out, and that every couple hurts each other in different ways.

As I said before, I would rather go into something knowing that something bad could happen than go in blindly thinking that everything will be great. This is the real world...

I just wonder if the problems that other couples go through hurt any less than these...and out of all the problems that I've seen in relationships that my friends, family, acquaintances have had, I guess they don't. The problems may be different, but are not any easier to deal with than the issues I'm dealing with right now.

When we are at our best, I am positive that this is as good as it gets...it's when we are at our worst that I question if there is something better out there. Yes, idealistically, we should not be going this far into the relationship without being married. Realisticaly, we have...and there's no going back. Do I just give up? I can't. I just need to find in myself the strength to try to take it one day at a time...and I really am trying to look to God for the answers here...it's just that they aren't so clear...or maybe I just don't want them to be...

I don't see it as an issue of how far you have gone or ever will go. That is a whole other item to deal with. I think it boils down to this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">...but he is not ready to commit yet. He kinda wants me on stand-by, and I have allowed myself to be okay with that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't reccomend this choice. I know that true love "waits" but his decision to have you "hang on a sec I'll be with you when I'm done" is not a real good sign of future responsibility. I know that he can probably be a good person and even might be now. But a choice like that on his part is just about as selfish a choice as a person can make, sorry to cut it so harshly but it is true. If you came to the decision together, that you are "right for each other but not right now" Then move along and call him in a year or so. I hate to give relationship advice but I just don't see pursuing this, in it's present context, bringing God, you or him closer together.

If he were being called out of state to work or into service of the military and you said you'd wait, that is a world apart from "waiting" while you both are in town and he sows wild oats, or road tests other relationships, (to make sure you are the one of course )

From a male standpoint, one who used to use women and toss them aside, he needs to deal with his willingness to commit. I feel that if he can't bring himself to be exclusivly with you, without some sort of ultimatum or threat, then he is simply not worthy of being with you. You are an awesomely saved child of the King and this fella does not sound like a blessing from God... blessings do not cause pain and anguish....

God bless ya sister!