hmm...sex is definately the easiest way to ruin a relationship w/o realizing it...even i friendship... definately overrated..

I agree, really the allure of sex is much the "smoke without the fire" kinda thing. Not that in the right place and the right time, it isnt wonderful (can't beat it in marriage), but it isnt worth it complicating things as it is known to do!

Wow...well, I'm not really one to talk here, except for that I can honestly say that sex is a very dangerous thing outside of marriage. I don't really think I can go into it or explain it right now...except for to say that it can create a stronghold so hard to break that you feel as if you are trapped in an endless cycle that will never stop. Ever. I really do love the person I am with. And in his own way I believe he does love me...but not really the way love was intended to be. This is not a Godly love. This is not a pure love. No love will ever be perfect, but this is something that is not just imperfect...it is sick...codependant, and a little twisted. And it all could have been much different if I wouldn't have "played with the fire" so to speak. I've made my decision to try and stick it out for now...and I am not sure what it is within me that keeps me here. As I said, there is love involved, but not the right type of love. Sex outside of marriage is not something that is okay. It's a dangerous game to play...sexual frustration or not, it is much better to leave things the way God intended them to be...because he intended them to be as such for our own good, and not because He did not want us to experience the intimacy of sex. It was because He knew that we are not fully equipped to handle the burden and the heartache and the damage that unpure sexual relations can and will cause.

Spoken well Forever Good to see you

Aimes, it's not over-rated if done right Outside of marriage tho... see above

Yeah but nuthin can beat a home cooked meal!

I think both sexes get better when married .... really, I do ! (No partiality or anything)

How very profound.

It seems every where I go, I feel guilty.

Last night I came home from my date.

Mom: What were you two doing out there so long?
Me: Just talking. (Really we were)
Mom: Hm.
Me: Why?
Mom: Mother's intuition.
Me: Might wanna go have that checked.
Mom: Are you two thinking about having sex?
Me: What? No. (I lied.)
Mom: Are you sure?
Me: Very. We're not having sex, mom.
Mom: I know you're not... are you planning on it though?
Me: No.
Mom: Okay.

How odd that it would be mentioned last night, above all nights.

You see, we were going to last night... alas, whenever we make "plans" something falls through. It's very rare that I get my period, but whenever I make plans, I get it. It's like God is looking down on me saying, "Oh no you don't."

And then I go to church last week, and the topic is Waiting While Dating.

And then just random conversations with people.

Everything around me says no, while my horomones are green. All my friends are doing it. Not that that's a reason to do anything, but it makes doing it seem so much easier--less guilt--I'm not the only one.

If it weren't for Brian, we would have already done it. He's weakening.

I dunno.

Just some thoughts about anybody and sex. When in the context of true love sex is probably one of the best things that ever happened to us humans. It helps us create a bond like no other living animal. I realize that other animals may be monogamous but they can't feel and think as deeply as we do. I'm sure to the degree they are capable they also love one another but nothing like us humans. Why do you think it hurts so much when we get cheated on? It's because of the deep sense of betrayal and the person we love, sharing something with someone else that should only be reserved for us.

I think sometimes people totally mistake sex for love. I believe there are those of us that feel more complete when with somone and if sex is the way we need to be with them, well we kinda sell out. I think we feel safe and secure in a sexual relationship thinking it will bond/keep us together for a lifetime and we'll never be lonely again. There is a difference between lonely and alone. I don't like feeling lonesome but bask in being able to be alone. I also refuse to prostitute myself to NOT FEEL LONELY.

Not being God I can't pass judgement on peoples sexual behaviors but I do know enough to know sex is NEVER the answer to anything. It's simply part of a relationship and can't do anymore than it's intended purpose. To propagate the human race and to help create a closer bond between those who love. If it doesn't come from a place of mutual love, respect and faith it's not much more than lower animals experience. Other than the possibility of creating more life it's just a physical act.

Of course these are just my opinions and nobody has to buy into them.

Ashley, you're gonna do what you want to do, but please just take it from someone who knows first hand...it's not worth it. You'd be better off taking care of your own raging green hormones by yourself, and I know that may not be the sunday school answer to your problem, but trust me...it would cause a whole lot less hurt in the long run than giving into this.

Kris, I know what you meant above...

To the person I am with, sex is an answer for everything. Had a fight? Sex will calm things down and you'll forget what you were mad about. Feeling fat today? Sex will make you feel better about your body. Had a bad day at work? Sex will relieve the stress. Feeling like the guys around you have accomplished more in life than you? Take them out and find the first piece of *** you can and prove that you are still "the man". Feeling insecure because you just had sex with the first fat ugly person you could find? Go find someone prettier and sexier and you'll feel even more like "the man". Feeling like a bad person because you just had sex with a few people you don't know or care about? Go home and have sex with the person you are most comfortable with and care about the most to make yourself feel like a better person.

We don't always so much confuse sex with love...at our age we have pretty much figured out that love hasn't got a darn thing to do with most of the sex that goes on in our lives unless it is done within the confines that God set for us.

Sex doesn't necessarily have to do with raging hormones, because let's face it...we can take care of those without a partner too.

Sex is a state of mind...sex is acceptance. Sex is a self esteem booster. Sex is power. Sex is a release of anger and frustration. Sex is manipulation. Sex is getting what you want. Sex is a cure for depression. Sex is proving to yourself that you are wanted by another person. Sex is an avenue to temporary euphoria. Sex is a guilt quencer. Sex is a way to feel closer to someone so you don't feel so alone...

But when the sex is over and the short-term feelings of closeness fade as they always do, the guilt is greater, and when the person who made you feel so wanted is off making themselves happy and you realize that they are not all about you, the lonliness is colder, and the anger is heavier, the frustration thicker and you feel completely powerless and consumed with insecurity.

Sex appears to be a short-term remedy for deep rooted problems, when, in reality, it is a catalyst that turns your allready severe emotional damage into something worse. Puts a wedge between you and God, you and yourself, you and others you care about, even you and the person you had sex with.

Sex is not a quick-fix. Sex outside of a holy bond is a parasite that can drain the life and soul out of you and leave you empty and hopeless.

met a "great" guy and we've been hangin out ALOT. We got on the subject of sex. i told him i was not havin sex w/ anyone anytime soon (still have wounds tryin to heal) he said that was cool and he wasnt just hangin out w/ me to get a "piece." has he called?? nope..i knew he probably wouldnt. I told myself i didnt want to be someones piece of *** and that it wouldnt bother me..well it hurts all the same. Sometimes you have to wonder if it's just easier to give in, but then i remember givin in hurts just as bad.. tell me..does it ever get any easier?? is there a right answer to all this?

Hey girl! I was in your spot, and I promised myself I wouldn't give in. I knew I didn't want to be just someone's piece of ***. I even told him that, and he said he understood... I held out for a couple of months but instead of running away like I should have, I stuck around flirting with temptation. By the end of a few months I really started having feelings for the guy. I'd cuddle with him in bed and make him keep his hands off my boobs and my...you know. But after a while, I felt like I was the one taking advantage of him. I was getting my cuddle needs fed, being held and feeling secure....but what was I giving him in return? Funny thing is...he was getting plenty of sex from plenty of other people...but me (in my warped mind) felt a bit obligatory. You're meeting my needs and I'm leaving you high and dry...? How unfair of me.

That's the part of my personality that always gets me into trouble, by the way. The part that thinks that if I could just be nicer, do more for you, meet your needs, then I would feel more complete as a person...

But the even worse deep down secret that I haven't really been able to fully admit to myself? The fact that I knew if I didn't eventually give in, the sexual tension would fade anyway, and he would move on to greener pastures, and I would be left feeling like all I had been was a pursuit and a chase to him (which, in all actuality, I was to begin with).

Now it's been about 7 months since I moved in with him...and it's been the biggest emotional roller coaster of my entire life. I'm not one to give up (another part of my nature that really gets me into trouble -- stubborness). I have the serenity prayer down:

God, grant me the serenity to change the things I cannot accept...

Yeah, I need therapy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Aimes:
tell me..does it ever get any easier?? is there a right answer to all this?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, it doesn't get any easier either with time... I think embie can back us up on that... Or mebbe not




Loneliness bites, but it beats guilt...

Been there, done that, got the 'Party of One' consolation prize... like Kris, I do well alone, tho times I get freakin lonely, more recently than ever before, but it still beats guilt, feeling 'stuck' in a relationship you know is going no where but you stay in because you've been real intimate and feel there's an investment there It's not worth the fleeting elation, only to feel worse than before. In healthcare we call that 'supercompensation', where the symptons come back stronger once the effects of the 'medicine' wear off.

Thanks for rolling your eyes at my pain...

Yes...embie CAN relate... *sigh*

I would rather be alone and lonely than in an intimate relationship and unhappy...

Sex for sex's sake is a fleeting pleasure that usually leaves you in more pain than before. The deeper you involve yourself, the harder it is to make a break.

It doesn't get easier, no matter how OLD you are... The intimacy should grow first in non-sexual discovery. Who could ever be content feeling used? I wouldn't try to pass myself off as sinless, but I do know that sex outside of marriage carries it's own baggage, and who needs more baggage when starting a new relationship?

preach preacha

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by foreverchanged:
Thanks for rolling your eyes at my pain... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">actually that was for my pain, but glad we can relate

Wow lots of action here since I finally decided to post. I think it's a good thing! (forgive me Martha) This may get a bit long winded. For starters I will share that for the past seven years it's been my choice to be Asexual. Maybe that gives me some sort of unfair advantage over the rest but if nothing else it has shown me how very little sex truly should have to do with what I call a meaningful relationship with anybody.

Michelle, I was going to directly reply to you but didn't feel I had the right so did my post as I did believing you'd get it. I read your post and my heart went out to you because I've been you. No lecture here just a chance to directly say, I don't even know you but am sure you deserve better out of life than you allow into your life. I really hope you get some help with that, you deserve better but have to love yourself enough to believe it and make it happen.

Aimes, sorry for the recent behavior of that guy. In cases like this my feeling is usually, I'm glad that jerk didn't waste anymore of her precious time. But then that's an easy thing to do when it's NOT happening to you. But since you mentioned some still open wounds and followed your heart at least there's not a new gaping wound to deal with too. Good for you and please never compromise yourself, you're far too good and worthy to settle for less than you have to give.

Back to Michelle a moment. I don't really think it's stubborness that is the personality flaw. I suspect you are and have been a fixer for a long time. You're gonna fix 'em and make everything better. Please believe me when I say that you are the only thing on earth you are able to fix. I'm not sure oif you are one of the health professionals here or not. I've found that because of professional training and knowing what to do in many medical situations medical people get the misguided belief that they are in control and fix things. The bottom line is with their training and expertise, they once again lucked out and procedure NOT them fixed something. To take that false belief home with you just puts your persoanl well being in as much jeopardy as if you were treating a pt. without a clue or no training. Like all things it comes from God he just gives us the necessary knowledge. If your not medical, I'm sure there are others here who can relate to what I've siad.

Allen, for a total stranger I have to say I really admire you. No, life ain't perfect and there are the low spots but you have your head together enough NOT to settle and probably pay a larger price later. Good for you. One thing I've noticed in my life. Even when lonely and your right it bites, I relflect on my friends, hospice work, and all the other wonderful things in my life and realize how full and satisfying my life actually is. Sometimes especially in comparison to some people I know that are partnered. I know when I was, I didn't give as much to other areas of my life and maybe that's why some of us are alone. We give so much to the relationship we fall short of what God expects of us in the other areas. Nobody can do or have it all. Perhaps it's not part of God's plan for us to be distracted until we've done some more growing. Also, this gives more time to finding that special somone who will accept us just as we are including our dedication to more than a relationship. Let's face it, if you were partnered and particularly if you were a parent there'd be a lot of inner conflict about wanting to do a good job of being a nurse, husband and father. I know it's a far cry from the husband father thing but for me, my dogs bring me a awful lot of comfort and lessen the lonliness when it comes with their unconditional love. Even they are a big responsibility and I become a little conflicted when I need to leave them to do other things. Just some thoughts I wanted to share.

Embie, I right there with you girl! The people I;m most intimate in the truest sense of the world are people I've not necessarily ever been sexual with. That doesn't mean I'm not intimate with people I've been sexual with. All of here in just this thread are being very intimate with each other and all that read our words. It's totally nonsexual in nature though. My point is, there is much more ti intimacy than sex. In fact depoending on the circumstances there may be nothing intimate about sex, even between partners unfortunately.

Once again I ranted far too much about things I probably shouldn't have. Just remember, all this is, is my opinion and thoughts. Nobody has to buy a word of it but I at least hope I've offered some food for thought. And, perhaps most importantly, although the way things are in my life is working for me, I don't expect anybody to live identically to myself. Getting off the soapbox now!

Love and God Bless y'all!

For the reasons some of you have stated I'm saving myself for the ring and the whole nine yards. You would not believe the men who will try to take advange of that with me ;trying to test that boundry. That realy peeves me. I've even had to get rude and push them away. What is it with that? We women have a heart you know, touch that part of us and will never forget you. Most men think sex is like everything to them, if they can't have that they usually pass on getting to know you. Why is that, it not like its #1 on are list here. I could see it being important if your married. I'm willing to bet; I've made a few of you men mad, but I'll bet those thoughts have crossed your mind. Sorry guys

Ya know Brandi, if we got mad it would only be because of being guilty as charged. All I can say is, for both men and women, some people behave well and others don't. Be glad for the ones that don't showing their true colors early in the relationship/game, situation, meeting pick one that fits. At least you haven't wasted much of your valuable time on them only to find out they've been a jerk all along.

Gotcha, Allen...sir. Yeah, I can relate.

Kris, you are right. I'm a fixer. Broken wing syndrome, I think they call it. Darned if I don't end up breaking my own wings trying to fix everybody elses, though. Funny thing is that I get so angry and so ready to leave...and I talk myself out of it before he even tries. ***Edited because someone took what I said the wrong way, assumed something that didn't happen, and spread a rumour that hurt some feelings.***

And I got angry of course, and swore to myself I would pack my stuff as soon as he left...but did I? No...I calmed myself down and talked myself out of it. By the time he got home he still had her with him, and asked me to ride with them while he brought her home so he wouldn't have to be alone on the way back home. It was 2am. But I rode with them anyway. He had the balls to turn down the radio and tell us both that he wishes we could just get along with each other and share him between the two of us...work out some sort of schedule. Either that, or one of us was just going to have to leave him. I wish I had volunteered. But I didn't. We got home and he thought sex would make it all better (as usual). Maby it did for him...but it didn't do a thing for me.

This is so sick and twisted, and the bad thing is I KNOW that I deserve better. I know I do. I know there is a guy somewhere out there who would think I hung the moon...who would love me for who I am and not for what I can do for him. The thing I'm scared of is that I will never love anyone as much as I love him. Sick, isn't it?

And I know that even if there isn't another guy in my future, I would be better off alone than stuck here. And I'm not really scared to be alone, either. Sex is overrated...went without it for 5 years, could go another 5. Intimacy doesn't come without vulnerability...so considering my situation, I don't think I would be too bad off without intimacy either. Feeling safe and being held? Well, how can I feel safe knowing he holds other people? I can mark that off of my list of "have to have". A roof over my head? A car? Clothes? Food? Check, check, check. Had all that before he came along...been paying a 400 dollar note on my apartment for a good 7 months and not even going there...Friends? I have plenty of them who, if they haven't all decided I'm the biggest looser freak around would still hang out with me...then again I think even though they KNOW I'm the biggest looser freak they would still let me tag along...so I wouldn't have to worry too hard about being alone. So why the heck do I stay and put up with this crap?

I really wish I knew...cause maybe if I could figure out why, I could make myself move past it. Who knows...

ok so like i saw my ex of um.... 2 1/2 weeks w/ his new girl today. I thought i'd be really upset cuz hes the only guy i've ever..well you know..with. But i saw her and it was almost like a sign of relief. Cuz we've almost hooked up so many times since we've broken up and it just makes me feel worse. Makes all the hurt come back. I do not believe i was a piece of *** to him. I mean of course to an extent, but at one point in our relationship i kind of called him on it and he didnt try ANYTHING for at least a month cuz he wanted me to know he cared about me more than that. Of course then i got annoyed and attacked him. But now not being with him sucks. Knowing everything we did and I still get upset at times (since it hasnt been that long) and he's the only one who can make me feel better. Its a really pathetic place to be. All i know is that sex before marriage is NOT a smart thing. No matter how "in love" you are w/ that person. Cuz if its true love..you can wait it out. But it's easy to say that...but will i ever find a guy who will believe that?? I know how bad it hurts so now im so defensive around guys...how do i not be like that??