Lately I've noticed from talking with other Christians how standards have changed. It seems that premarital sex is very common within the Christian community and on top of that , they either don't see it as a sin or are very lax about it....i.e. "ooops I did it again." Or the line between okay and sin varies from person to person. (sort of like how with Clinton...what qualifies as being sex.) Any thoughts?

Very touchy subject there my friend..but I like it ....I stand in agreement with you that a lot of Christians have a rather lax attitude toward premarital sex...I myself have been guilty of this attitude and there is no excuse for it though I have tried to justify it by convincing myself that I thought the relationship would amount to something more than just a sexual relationship, I honestly thought that I had found "my soulmate" and that premarital sex was ok because "we" were meant to be together..how sadly mistaken I was ...but as they say "hind sight is blindsight". That does not make it morally right and now I realize that "sex" in a relationship clouds one's vision...it can confuse lust for love...what I have learned is that if my relationship were spiritually based rather than sexually based the foundation would be 1000 times more sturdy and it leaves something for the relationship to thrive on..when the "sexual magic" is gone there is nothing left. "The spirit is strong but the flesh is weak"...I guess it's all a matter of mind over matter and we need to not give in to our carnal needs and concentrate on the spiritual aspects...the true foundation for a lasting, God-filled relationship. Now I've given my two cents

Unfortunately, it really hasn't changed. Sex has always been a part of the christian world. Adam and Eve all the way to today, sex has been a part of our world. Being Christian means loving Christ. Christ teaches us that we can be so much more than we alow ourselves to be if we will put our whole heart towards finding a personal relationship with God.

Sex as I have seen it in my life just gets in the way.

I don't think it really makes us any worse than any other christian, it just is one other snare satan uses to keep us from our potential in Christ.

The trick is to not give up on growing stronger everyday. Wether it is sex, or any other sin, what would happen if we just kept striving to follow more and more and let the Holy Spirit lead?

innerdawg

Our bodies are not our own. They belong to God. But being the awesome and faithful and loving God that He is, he provides for us the beautiful expression of love within a sexual relationship. He just wants us to save that for our spouse.

1 Cor 8:4,5

The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

God gives us the green light to enjoy each other and at the same time defeat the devil's plans to tempt us with another. The Song of Solomon shows us that sex is so much more satisfying when it is backed up by the love and trust and faith found in a marriage committment.

Sure, sex in and of itself is pleasurable, but that feeling is temporary. At some point, as Haze spoke of, the sexual relationship comes to an end, and then what are we left with? Most often, pain and regret.

I think we all have sexual experiences that we are not proud of. The most wonderful and incredible thing is that God wants us back. He wants our repentence. He wants us to be right with Him.

The past is ancient history. We have the freedom to live as children of God. We can't assume that because we have a romantic involvement that it will eventually turn into marriage. We can't take the position that we have to be sure we are sexually compatible with our partner before we marry. God would not put two people together and then let that be an issue. We have to trust that God has this all worked out. We have to have a marriage before we have a marriage bed.

...and don't think that typing these words is easy for me. I'm a single, 40-something, mother of two. It's going to take God's hand to send me a "rest of my life" husband. If that's not His plan for me, then I will live the rest of my life filled with the Joy of the Lord. He knows what's best.

If we put the Lord first, He will honor our wishes. He promised us the desires of our hearts. But those desires have to be in agreement with His righteous will.

It's not too late for any of us to get right with the Lord. Come as you are. That's what He says.

/

To start, I agree with most everything said above, tho I have a difficult time using The Song of Solomon for any kind of marriage/sex reference point. Solomon struggled with lust and pre-marital/non-marital sex as much as anyone in history, what with his hundreds of wives and hundreds of concubines - he's a pretty bad example to teach about how love can be within the context of marriage

Pre-marital sex clouds and confuses any and all relationships. We do not see the relationship for what it is and what it can become. We degrade it to 'sexual healing' He's still working on me... A lot of this was discussed in the 'touchy subject' thread a bit south of here... we may want to revisit it again.

I myself am a good girl, but we all have our faults and are human. Sex is always an issue between men and women ;I think when you you go to far without being married you make that a major part of the realtionship instead of the real underlying person. Some people take that for granted that if there great between the steets that makes a great realtionship, instead of an added bonus. I not staying that if i met the right person, I could maybe take the plunge but I would have to be real serious with that person, maybe on the road to the ring and everything. Some men you give them that and thats all they want. I met a few, and thank god there gone. I guess i am a very picky woman, who knows what she wants; but has not found it yet.

May I point out that Solomon is a man...

But if you are referring to verse 6:8

Sixty queens there may be,
and eighty concubines,
and virgins beyond number

There is no language of ownership or relationship mentioned that would link these to Solomon.

In verse 9 Solomon tells his beloved that she stands above all women.

but my dove, my perfect one, is unique,
the only daughter of her mother,
the favorite of the one who bore her.
The maidens saw her and called her blessed;
the queens and concubines praised her


The Shulamite woman addresses the daughters of Jerusalem, not once but twice:

2:7 and 3:5

Daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you
by the gazelles and by the does of the field:
Do not arouse or awaken love
until it so desires.

She knows that the intesity of her love for Soloman cannot be yet be experienced until the wedding, so she invites the daughters of Jerusalem to keep her accountable regarding her sexual purity. She expresses her committment to a chaste life before and during marriage. Up to this point her escalating desire has been expressed in veiled and delicate ways as compared to the more explicit and open expressions which follow after their marriage. These would be totally appropriate for a married couple.

I do see this book as a testimony to sex being better and more fulfilling and complete when it's within the bonds of marriage.

So there...

Read this section and tell me if you still think that Solomon was a good example

1 Kings 11


Solomon's Wives

1 King Solomon, however, loved many foreign women besides Pharaoh's daughter-Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians and Hittites. 2 They were from nations about which the LORD had told the Israelites, "You must not intermarry with them, because they will surely turn your hearts after their gods." Nevertheless, Solomon held fast to them in love. 3 He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray. 4 As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been. 5 He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molech the detestable god of the Ammonites. 6 So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the LORD ; he did not follow the LORD completely, as David his father had done.

Can you say 'Ladies Man'?

Many of Solomon's marriages were for the purpose of ratifying treaties with other nations, which was a common practice in the Ancient Near East. A number of wives was seen as a measure of wealth and importance. Solomon desired to have a larger harem than any of his subjects. It doesn't make it right, but just exemplifies the point that having more than one relationship is wrong and fragments all of the relationships. His greed and lust for power was his demise.

Sexual sin, either outside of marriage, or within marriage in an adulterous situation, is still the same sin. Remaining true to one's spouse is the key and the way God intended.

Hey, we agree

Living proof that God exists...

Hmm sex between Christians, I am all for it!!!

Really though for just the premarital part, I can't say just how much it can mess up a life and future relationships.

Society has taken over the portion of educating our children about al things sexual and we just sit back and let it! Nuff said if we can't teach our own about sex in the context of a Godly marriage then why are we suprised when the statistics don't change....

ugh, saw a young married's Bible study class that plans to use the Song of Solomon to teach about love

I'm a sexually frustrated teen. Woo. I have nothing to say.

There IS a portion of that the does tell you how to show affection for your mate. As long as they don't use Solomon for a model of fidelity...


Ashley. I would rather you not have anything to "do" than nothing to say <grin>

heheh It's ok to be frustrated Ash, eventually you get used to it



Josh Harris spoke this weekend at oneday... lots of good stuff to say about sexual purity and other related stuff. I plan to get the DVD when it comes out to get the 411.

Hey, I think the Song of Solomon is a neat way to explain the love affair of the soul with God, and if it is used to parallel the love of two, that isnt too bad .. what was your "ugh" allen ?

My 'ugh' was because they try to use it as an example of 'true love' when solomon really meant 'true love right now' I agree with Steve, that it's a good example of how to show affection to your mate, just don't use it as an example of fidelity

Oh okay, I gotcha. I take the book to mean something else, yeah, I agree there should be other ways to show example I suppose.

I think Brian has crossed views about what "sex" includes.