Lately I've noticed from talking with other Christians how standards have changed. It seems that premarital sex is very common within the Christian community and on top of that , they either don't see it as a sin or are very lax about it....i.e. "ooops I did it again." Or the line between okay and sin varies from person to person. (sort of like how with Clinton...what qualifies as being sex.) Any thoughts?

Very touchy subject there my friend..but I like it ....I stand in agreement with you that a lot of Christians have a rather lax attitude toward premarital sex...I myself have been guilty of this attitude and there is no excuse for it though I have tried to justify it by convincing myself that I thought the relationship would amount to something more than just a sexual relationship, I honestly thought that I had found "my soulmate" and that premarital sex was ok because "we" were meant to be together..how sadly mistaken I was ...but as they say "hind sight is blindsight". That does not make it morally right and now I realize that "sex" in a relationship clouds one's vision...it can confuse lust for love...what I have learned is that if my relationship were spiritually based rather than sexually based the foundation would be 1000 times more sturdy and it leaves something for the relationship to thrive on..when the "sexual magic" is gone there is nothing left. "The spirit is strong but the flesh is weak"...I guess it's all a matter of mind over matter and we need to not give in to our carnal needs and concentrate on the spiritual aspects...the true foundation for a lasting, God-filled relationship. Now I've given my two cents

Unfortunately, it really hasn't changed. Sex has always been a part of the christian world. Adam and Eve all the way to today, sex has been a part of our world. Being Christian means loving Christ. Christ teaches us that we can be so much more than we alow ourselves to be if we will put our whole heart towards finding a personal relationship with God.

Sex as I have seen it in my life just gets in the way.

I don't think it really makes us any worse than any other christian, it just is one other snare satan uses to keep us from our potential in Christ.

The trick is to not give up on growing stronger everyday. Wether it is sex, or any other sin, what would happen if we just kept striving to follow more and more and let the Holy Spirit lead?

innerdawg

Our bodies are not our own. They belong to God. But being the awesome and faithful and loving God that He is, he provides for us the beautiful expression of love within a sexual relationship. He just wants us to save that for our spouse.

1 Cor 8:4,5

The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

God gives us the green light to enjoy each other and at the same time defeat the devil's plans to tempt us with another. The Song of Solomon shows us that sex is so much more satisfying when it is backed up by the love and trust and faith found in a marriage committment.

Sure, sex in and of itself is pleasurable, but that feeling is temporary. At some point, as Haze spoke of, the sexual relationship comes to an end, and then what are we left with? Most often, pain and regret.

I think we all have sexual experiences that we are not proud of. The most wonderful and incredible thing is that God wants us back. He wants our repentence. He wants us to be right with Him.

The past is ancient history. We have the freedom to live as children of God. We can't assume that because we have a romantic involvement that it will eventually turn into marriage. We can't take the position that we have to be sure we are sexually compatible with our partner before we marry. God would not put two people together and then let that be an issue. We have to trust that God has this all worked out. We have to have a marriage before we have a marriage bed.

...and don't think that typing these words is easy for me. I'm a single, 40-something, mother of two. It's going to take God's hand to send me a "rest of my life" husband. If that's not His plan for me, then I will live the rest of my life filled with the Joy of the Lord. He knows what's best.

If we put the Lord first, He will honor our wishes. He promised us the desires of our hearts. But those desires have to be in agreement with His righteous will.

It's not too late for any of us to get right with the Lord. Come as you are. That's what He says.

/

To start, I agree with most everything said above, tho I have a difficult time using The Song of Solomon for any kind of marriage/sex reference point. Solomon struggled with lust and pre-marital/non-marital sex as much as anyone in history, what with his hundreds of wives and hundreds of concubines - he's a pretty bad example to teach about how love can be within the context of marriage

Pre-marital sex clouds and confuses any and all relationships. We do not see the relationship for what it is and what it can become. We degrade it to 'sexual healing' He's still working on me... A lot of this was discussed in the 'touchy subject' thread a bit south of here... we may want to revisit it again.

I myself am a good girl, but we all have our faults and are human. Sex is always an issue between men and women ;I think when you you go to far without being married you make that a major part of the realtionship instead of the real underlying person. Some people take that for granted that if there great between the steets that makes a great realtionship, instead of an added bonus. I not staying that if i met the right person, I could maybe take the plunge but I would have to be real serious with that person, maybe on the road to the ring and everything. Some men you give them that and thats all they want. I met a few, and thank god there gone. I guess i am a very picky woman, who knows what she wants; but has not found it yet.

May I point out that Solomon is a man...

But if you are referring to verse 6:8

Sixty queens there may be,
and eighty concubines,
and virgins beyond number

There is no language of ownership or relationship mentioned that would link these to Solomon.

In verse 9 Solomon tells his beloved that she stands above all women.

but my dove, my perfect one, is unique,
the only daughter of her mother,
the favorite of the one who bore her.
The maidens saw her and called her blessed;
the queens and concubines praised her


The Shulamite woman addresses the daughters of Jerusalem, not once but twice:

2:7 and 3:5

Daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you
by the gazelles and by the does of the field:
Do not arouse or awaken love
until it so desires.

She knows that the intesity of her love for Soloman cannot be yet be experienced until the wedding, so she invites the daughters of Jerusalem to keep her accountable regarding her sexual purity. She expresses her committment to a chaste life before and during marriage. Up to this point her escalating desire has been expressed in veiled and delicate ways as compared to the more explicit and open expressions which follow after their marriage. These would be totally appropriate for a married couple.

I do see this book as a testimony to sex being better and more fulfilling and complete when it's within the bonds of marriage.

So there...

Read this section and tell me if you still think that Solomon was a good example

1 Kings 11


Solomon's Wives

1 King Solomon, however, loved many foreign women besides Pharaoh's daughter-Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians and Hittites. 2 They were from nations about which the LORD had told the Israelites, "You must not intermarry with them, because they will surely turn your hearts after their gods." Nevertheless, Solomon held fast to them in love. 3 He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray. 4 As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been. 5 He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molech the detestable god of the Ammonites. 6 So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the LORD ; he did not follow the LORD completely, as David his father had done.

Can you say 'Ladies Man'?

Many of Solomon's marriages were for the purpose of ratifying treaties with other nations, which was a common practice in the Ancient Near East. A number of wives was seen as a measure of wealth and importance. Solomon desired to have a larger harem than any of his subjects. It doesn't make it right, but just exemplifies the point that having more than one relationship is wrong and fragments all of the relationships. His greed and lust for power was his demise.

Sexual sin, either outside of marriage, or within marriage in an adulterous situation, is still the same sin. Remaining true to one's spouse is the key and the way God intended.

Hey, we agree

Living proof that God exists...

Hmm sex between Christians, I am all for it!!!

Really though for just the premarital part, I can't say just how much it can mess up a life and future relationships.

Society has taken over the portion of educating our children about al things sexual and we just sit back and let it! Nuff said if we can't teach our own about sex in the context of a Godly marriage then why are we suprised when the statistics don't change....

ugh, saw a young married's Bible study class that plans to use the Song of Solomon to teach about love

I'm a sexually frustrated teen. Woo. I have nothing to say.

There IS a portion of that the does tell you how to show affection for your mate. As long as they don't use Solomon for a model of fidelity...


Ashley. I would rather you not have anything to "do" than nothing to say <grin>

heheh It's ok to be frustrated Ash, eventually you get used to it



Josh Harris spoke this weekend at oneday... lots of good stuff to say about sexual purity and other related stuff. I plan to get the DVD when it comes out to get the 411.

Hey, I think the Song of Solomon is a neat way to explain the love affair of the soul with God, and if it is used to parallel the love of two, that isnt too bad .. what was your "ugh" allen ?

My 'ugh' was because they try to use it as an example of 'true love' when solomon really meant 'true love right now' I agree with Steve, that it's a good example of how to show affection to your mate, just don't use it as an example of fidelity

Oh okay, I gotcha. I take the book to mean something else, yeah, I agree there should be other ways to show example I suppose.

I think Brian has crossed views about what "sex" includes.

hmm...sex is definately the easiest way to ruin a relationship w/o realizing it...even i friendship... definately overrated..

I agree, really the allure of sex is much the "smoke without the fire" kinda thing. Not that in the right place and the right time, it isnt wonderful (can't beat it in marriage), but it isnt worth it complicating things as it is known to do!

Wow...well, I'm not really one to talk here, except for that I can honestly say that sex is a very dangerous thing outside of marriage. I don't really think I can go into it or explain it right now...except for to say that it can create a stronghold so hard to break that you feel as if you are trapped in an endless cycle that will never stop. Ever. I really do love the person I am with. And in his own way I believe he does love me...but not really the way love was intended to be. This is not a Godly love. This is not a pure love. No love will ever be perfect, but this is something that is not just imperfect...it is sick...codependant, and a little twisted. And it all could have been much different if I wouldn't have "played with the fire" so to speak. I've made my decision to try and stick it out for now...and I am not sure what it is within me that keeps me here. As I said, there is love involved, but not the right type of love. Sex outside of marriage is not something that is okay. It's a dangerous game to play...sexual frustration or not, it is much better to leave things the way God intended them to be...because he intended them to be as such for our own good, and not because He did not want us to experience the intimacy of sex. It was because He knew that we are not fully equipped to handle the burden and the heartache and the damage that unpure sexual relations can and will cause.

Spoken well Forever Good to see you

Aimes, it's not over-rated if done right Outside of marriage tho... see above

Yeah but nuthin can beat a home cooked meal!

I think both sexes get better when married .... really, I do ! (No partiality or anything)

How very profound.

It seems every where I go, I feel guilty.

Last night I came home from my date.

Mom: What were you two doing out there so long?
Me: Just talking. (Really we were)
Mom: Hm.
Me: Why?
Mom: Mother's intuition.
Me: Might wanna go have that checked.
Mom: Are you two thinking about having sex?
Me: What? No. (I lied.)
Mom: Are you sure?
Me: Very. We're not having sex, mom.
Mom: I know you're not... are you planning on it though?
Me: No.
Mom: Okay.

How odd that it would be mentioned last night, above all nights.

You see, we were going to last night... alas, whenever we make "plans" something falls through. It's very rare that I get my period, but whenever I make plans, I get it. It's like God is looking down on me saying, "Oh no you don't."

And then I go to church last week, and the topic is Waiting While Dating.

And then just random conversations with people.

Everything around me says no, while my horomones are green. All my friends are doing it. Not that that's a reason to do anything, but it makes doing it seem so much easier--less guilt--I'm not the only one.

If it weren't for Brian, we would have already done it. He's weakening.

I dunno.

Just some thoughts about anybody and sex. When in the context of true love sex is probably one of the best things that ever happened to us humans. It helps us create a bond like no other living animal. I realize that other animals may be monogamous but they can't feel and think as deeply as we do. I'm sure to the degree they are capable they also love one another but nothing like us humans. Why do you think it hurts so much when we get cheated on? It's because of the deep sense of betrayal and the person we love, sharing something with someone else that should only be reserved for us.

I think sometimes people totally mistake sex for love. I believe there are those of us that feel more complete when with somone and if sex is the way we need to be with them, well we kinda sell out. I think we feel safe and secure in a sexual relationship thinking it will bond/keep us together for a lifetime and we'll never be lonely again. There is a difference between lonely and alone. I don't like feeling lonesome but bask in being able to be alone. I also refuse to prostitute myself to NOT FEEL LONELY.

Not being God I can't pass judgement on peoples sexual behaviors but I do know enough to know sex is NEVER the answer to anything. It's simply part of a relationship and can't do anymore than it's intended purpose. To propagate the human race and to help create a closer bond between those who love. If it doesn't come from a place of mutual love, respect and faith it's not much more than lower animals experience. Other than the possibility of creating more life it's just a physical act.

Of course these are just my opinions and nobody has to buy into them.

Ashley, you're gonna do what you want to do, but please just take it from someone who knows first hand...it's not worth it. You'd be better off taking care of your own raging green hormones by yourself, and I know that may not be the sunday school answer to your problem, but trust me...it would cause a whole lot less hurt in the long run than giving into this.

Kris, I know what you meant above...

To the person I am with, sex is an answer for everything. Had a fight? Sex will calm things down and you'll forget what you were mad about. Feeling fat today? Sex will make you feel better about your body. Had a bad day at work? Sex will relieve the stress. Feeling like the guys around you have accomplished more in life than you? Take them out and find the first piece of *** you can and prove that you are still "the man". Feeling insecure because you just had sex with the first fat ugly person you could find? Go find someone prettier and sexier and you'll feel even more like "the man". Feeling like a bad person because you just had sex with a few people you don't know or care about? Go home and have sex with the person you are most comfortable with and care about the most to make yourself feel like a better person.

We don't always so much confuse sex with love...at our age we have pretty much figured out that love hasn't got a darn thing to do with most of the sex that goes on in our lives unless it is done within the confines that God set for us.

Sex doesn't necessarily have to do with raging hormones, because let's face it...we can take care of those without a partner too.

Sex is a state of mind...sex is acceptance. Sex is a self esteem booster. Sex is power. Sex is a release of anger and frustration. Sex is manipulation. Sex is getting what you want. Sex is a cure for depression. Sex is proving to yourself that you are wanted by another person. Sex is an avenue to temporary euphoria. Sex is a guilt quencer. Sex is a way to feel closer to someone so you don't feel so alone...

But when the sex is over and the short-term feelings of closeness fade as they always do, the guilt is greater, and when the person who made you feel so wanted is off making themselves happy and you realize that they are not all about you, the lonliness is colder, and the anger is heavier, the frustration thicker and you feel completely powerless and consumed with insecurity.

Sex appears to be a short-term remedy for deep rooted problems, when, in reality, it is a catalyst that turns your allready severe emotional damage into something worse. Puts a wedge between you and God, you and yourself, you and others you care about, even you and the person you had sex with.

Sex is not a quick-fix. Sex outside of a holy bond is a parasite that can drain the life and soul out of you and leave you empty and hopeless.

met a "great" guy and we've been hangin out ALOT. We got on the subject of sex. i told him i was not havin sex w/ anyone anytime soon (still have wounds tryin to heal) he said that was cool and he wasnt just hangin out w/ me to get a "piece." has he called?? nope..i knew he probably wouldnt. I told myself i didnt want to be someones piece of *** and that it wouldnt bother me..well it hurts all the same. Sometimes you have to wonder if it's just easier to give in, but then i remember givin in hurts just as bad.. tell me..does it ever get any easier?? is there a right answer to all this?

Hey girl! I was in your spot, and I promised myself I wouldn't give in. I knew I didn't want to be just someone's piece of ***. I even told him that, and he said he understood... I held out for a couple of months but instead of running away like I should have, I stuck around flirting with temptation. By the end of a few months I really started having feelings for the guy. I'd cuddle with him in bed and make him keep his hands off my boobs and my...you know. But after a while, I felt like I was the one taking advantage of him. I was getting my cuddle needs fed, being held and feeling secure....but what was I giving him in return? Funny thing is...he was getting plenty of sex from plenty of other people...but me (in my warped mind) felt a bit obligatory. You're meeting my needs and I'm leaving you high and dry...? How unfair of me.

That's the part of my personality that always gets me into trouble, by the way. The part that thinks that if I could just be nicer, do more for you, meet your needs, then I would feel more complete as a person...

But the even worse deep down secret that I haven't really been able to fully admit to myself? The fact that I knew if I didn't eventually give in, the sexual tension would fade anyway, and he would move on to greener pastures, and I would be left feeling like all I had been was a pursuit and a chase to him (which, in all actuality, I was to begin with).

Now it's been about 7 months since I moved in with him...and it's been the biggest emotional roller coaster of my entire life. I'm not one to give up (another part of my nature that really gets me into trouble -- stubborness). I have the serenity prayer down:

God, grant me the serenity to change the things I cannot accept...

Yeah, I need therapy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Aimes:
tell me..does it ever get any easier?? is there a right answer to all this?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, it doesn't get any easier either with time... I think embie can back us up on that... Or mebbe not




Loneliness bites, but it beats guilt...

Been there, done that, got the 'Party of One' consolation prize... like Kris, I do well alone, tho times I get freakin lonely, more recently than ever before, but it still beats guilt, feeling 'stuck' in a relationship you know is going no where but you stay in because you've been real intimate and feel there's an investment there It's not worth the fleeting elation, only to feel worse than before. In healthcare we call that 'supercompensation', where the symptons come back stronger once the effects of the 'medicine' wear off.

Thanks for rolling your eyes at my pain...

Yes...embie CAN relate... *sigh*

I would rather be alone and lonely than in an intimate relationship and unhappy...

Sex for sex's sake is a fleeting pleasure that usually leaves you in more pain than before. The deeper you involve yourself, the harder it is to make a break.

It doesn't get easier, no matter how OLD you are... The intimacy should grow first in non-sexual discovery. Who could ever be content feeling used? I wouldn't try to pass myself off as sinless, but I do know that sex outside of marriage carries it's own baggage, and who needs more baggage when starting a new relationship?

preach preacha

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by foreverchanged:
Thanks for rolling your eyes at my pain... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">actually that was for my pain, but glad we can relate

Wow lots of action here since I finally decided to post. I think it's a good thing! (forgive me Martha) This may get a bit long winded. For starters I will share that for the past seven years it's been my choice to be Asexual. Maybe that gives me some sort of unfair advantage over the rest but if nothing else it has shown me how very little sex truly should have to do with what I call a meaningful relationship with anybody.

Michelle, I was going to directly reply to you but didn't feel I had the right so did my post as I did believing you'd get it. I read your post and my heart went out to you because I've been you. No lecture here just a chance to directly say, I don't even know you but am sure you deserve better out of life than you allow into your life. I really hope you get some help with that, you deserve better but have to love yourself enough to believe it and make it happen.

Aimes, sorry for the recent behavior of that guy. In cases like this my feeling is usually, I'm glad that jerk didn't waste anymore of her precious time. But then that's an easy thing to do when it's NOT happening to you. But since you mentioned some still open wounds and followed your heart at least there's not a new gaping wound to deal with too. Good for you and please never compromise yourself, you're far too good and worthy to settle for less than you have to give.

Back to Michelle a moment. I don't really think it's stubborness that is the personality flaw. I suspect you are and have been a fixer for a long time. You're gonna fix 'em and make everything better. Please believe me when I say that you are the only thing on earth you are able to fix. I'm not sure oif you are one of the health professionals here or not. I've found that because of professional training and knowing what to do in many medical situations medical people get the misguided belief that they are in control and fix things. The bottom line is with their training and expertise, they once again lucked out and procedure NOT them fixed something. To take that false belief home with you just puts your persoanl well being in as much jeopardy as if you were treating a pt. without a clue or no training. Like all things it comes from God he just gives us the necessary knowledge. If your not medical, I'm sure there are others here who can relate to what I've siad.

Allen, for a total stranger I have to say I really admire you. No, life ain't perfect and there are the low spots but you have your head together enough NOT to settle and probably pay a larger price later. Good for you. One thing I've noticed in my life. Even when lonely and your right it bites, I relflect on my friends, hospice work, and all the other wonderful things in my life and realize how full and satisfying my life actually is. Sometimes especially in comparison to some people I know that are partnered. I know when I was, I didn't give as much to other areas of my life and maybe that's why some of us are alone. We give so much to the relationship we fall short of what God expects of us in the other areas. Nobody can do or have it all. Perhaps it's not part of God's plan for us to be distracted until we've done some more growing. Also, this gives more time to finding that special somone who will accept us just as we are including our dedication to more than a relationship. Let's face it, if you were partnered and particularly if you were a parent there'd be a lot of inner conflict about wanting to do a good job of being a nurse, husband and father. I know it's a far cry from the husband father thing but for me, my dogs bring me a awful lot of comfort and lessen the lonliness when it comes with their unconditional love. Even they are a big responsibility and I become a little conflicted when I need to leave them to do other things. Just some thoughts I wanted to share.

Embie, I right there with you girl! The people I;m most intimate in the truest sense of the world are people I've not necessarily ever been sexual with. That doesn't mean I'm not intimate with people I've been sexual with. All of here in just this thread are being very intimate with each other and all that read our words. It's totally nonsexual in nature though. My point is, there is much more ti intimacy than sex. In fact depoending on the circumstances there may be nothing intimate about sex, even between partners unfortunately.

Once again I ranted far too much about things I probably shouldn't have. Just remember, all this is, is my opinion and thoughts. Nobody has to buy a word of it but I at least hope I've offered some food for thought. And, perhaps most importantly, although the way things are in my life is working for me, I don't expect anybody to live identically to myself. Getting off the soapbox now!

Love and God Bless y'all!

For the reasons some of you have stated I'm saving myself for the ring and the whole nine yards. You would not believe the men who will try to take advange of that with me ;trying to test that boundry. That realy peeves me. I've even had to get rude and push them away. What is it with that? We women have a heart you know, touch that part of us and will never forget you. Most men think sex is like everything to them, if they can't have that they usually pass on getting to know you. Why is that, it not like its #1 on are list here. I could see it being important if your married. I'm willing to bet; I've made a few of you men mad, but I'll bet those thoughts have crossed your mind. Sorry guys

Ya know Brandi, if we got mad it would only be because of being guilty as charged. All I can say is, for both men and women, some people behave well and others don't. Be glad for the ones that don't showing their true colors early in the relationship/game, situation, meeting pick one that fits. At least you haven't wasted much of your valuable time on them only to find out they've been a jerk all along.

Gotcha, Allen...sir. Yeah, I can relate.

Kris, you are right. I'm a fixer. Broken wing syndrome, I think they call it. Darned if I don't end up breaking my own wings trying to fix everybody elses, though. Funny thing is that I get so angry and so ready to leave...and I talk myself out of it before he even tries. ***Edited because someone took what I said the wrong way, assumed something that didn't happen, and spread a rumour that hurt some feelings.***

And I got angry of course, and swore to myself I would pack my stuff as soon as he left...but did I? No...I calmed myself down and talked myself out of it. By the time he got home he still had her with him, and asked me to ride with them while he brought her home so he wouldn't have to be alone on the way back home. It was 2am. But I rode with them anyway. He had the balls to turn down the radio and tell us both that he wishes we could just get along with each other and share him between the two of us...work out some sort of schedule. Either that, or one of us was just going to have to leave him. I wish I had volunteered. But I didn't. We got home and he thought sex would make it all better (as usual). Maby it did for him...but it didn't do a thing for me.

This is so sick and twisted, and the bad thing is I KNOW that I deserve better. I know I do. I know there is a guy somewhere out there who would think I hung the moon...who would love me for who I am and not for what I can do for him. The thing I'm scared of is that I will never love anyone as much as I love him. Sick, isn't it?

And I know that even if there isn't another guy in my future, I would be better off alone than stuck here. And I'm not really scared to be alone, either. Sex is overrated...went without it for 5 years, could go another 5. Intimacy doesn't come without vulnerability...so considering my situation, I don't think I would be too bad off without intimacy either. Feeling safe and being held? Well, how can I feel safe knowing he holds other people? I can mark that off of my list of "have to have". A roof over my head? A car? Clothes? Food? Check, check, check. Had all that before he came along...been paying a 400 dollar note on my apartment for a good 7 months and not even going there...Friends? I have plenty of them who, if they haven't all decided I'm the biggest looser freak around would still hang out with me...then again I think even though they KNOW I'm the biggest looser freak they would still let me tag along...so I wouldn't have to worry too hard about being alone. So why the heck do I stay and put up with this crap?

I really wish I knew...cause maybe if I could figure out why, I could make myself move past it. Who knows...

ok so like i saw my ex of um.... 2 1/2 weeks w/ his new girl today. I thought i'd be really upset cuz hes the only guy i've ever..well you know..with. But i saw her and it was almost like a sign of relief. Cuz we've almost hooked up so many times since we've broken up and it just makes me feel worse. Makes all the hurt come back. I do not believe i was a piece of *** to him. I mean of course to an extent, but at one point in our relationship i kind of called him on it and he didnt try ANYTHING for at least a month cuz he wanted me to know he cared about me more than that. Of course then i got annoyed and attacked him. But now not being with him sucks. Knowing everything we did and I still get upset at times (since it hasnt been that long) and he's the only one who can make me feel better. Its a really pathetic place to be. All i know is that sex before marriage is NOT a smart thing. No matter how "in love" you are w/ that person. Cuz if its true love..you can wait it out. But it's easy to say that...but will i ever find a guy who will believe that?? I know how bad it hurts so now im so defensive around guys...how do i not be like that??

Michelle,

You're obviously a very bright intelligent woman. You seem to have a grasp of the situation and a good understanding of the schmuck you live with. My only question is what could possibly make you hate yourself so much that allow and even contribute to his completely unacceptable behavior. You may have missed it but somewhere sometime in anothe thread heck maybe even earlier in this one I've said "we teach people how to treat us." What schmuckman has been taught is that he can use your body, abuse your soul and spirit and psyche. Since your the teacher only you can do anything about this. I believe first you need to get away from him totally because this vampire is sucking the life out of you. Once you get away and become more independent you need to get professional help before you turn to suicide as your only out.

This man isn't worth the sweat on your brow. You must not think you're worth anymore than that either. That makes me very sad for you. I don't know when or who or how but something from your past has really done a number on you. Nothing can be done about the past but everything is possible for the future. You need to decide whether you want a future filled with love serenity and sanity or a future filled with chaos and insanity. I don't think you'll be able to accomplish the later on your own. I know coming here or to your close friends about it won't be of anyhelp to you. No matter how much we care or want we we are helpless to do anything for you. You need to want change in your life and a professional to help you reach that goal. Dang girl, I don't even know you and want to kick his a**. Sad thing is it wouldn't change anything if you didn't leave. Well actully it would get rid of some of my anger about my health and such. Michelle, wake up and smell the coffee. As Dr. Phil would say, "And how's that working for you?" The only honest reply you could give him is " well I ain't fixin' nothing and am destroying myself in the process." I'm sorry to be rough on you but ya know what. If you don't do something to change the quality of the life you're living guess who's in line for the next round of whoopa** right after schmukboy. Can't even put the man on the end of it this time.

Getting off my soapbox now.

Aimes there is no easy, tried and true method...we all have that self-defense mechanism that come into play after we have been hurt but in time we learn to forgive and forget and move on...my belief is that if it was meant to be then it will be. Every relationship is a stepping stone...God brings people into our lives for reasons, seasons or lifetimes...I am definitely in agreement with all that's been said here about premarital sex..but it is indeed an easy thing to say but awfully difficult to practice abstinence especially when you have emotionally attached yourself to that person...when you love them unconditionally and you want to share everything with them. I have used sex as a way to express my love to someone, knowing that it is not right but I wanted to make that person feel good and well to be honest I wanted to feel good too so I am the last person to judge anyone because I have freely partook of this 'free sexual behavior'...willingly, knowingly...but not guiltlessly...even when I knew this person was otherwise involved because stupidly I reasoned if he was really committed to another he wouldn't still want to carry on a relationship with me...but it was all about sex and what/who was convenient at that time...but I was so blinded by my feelings and living in my Utopia..wanting to believe that he truly cared about me...and that the other was just a passing phase...in retrospect I wish that I had never gotten involved in an intimate relationship with him because he would have made a better friend...but after being that intimate I doubt that we could ever be friends there was too much hurt and disappointment and it was a struggle for me to get to the point where I was able to forgive and accept the situation and let go. Michelle I can truly emphasize with you, I feel your pain we had this discussion a couple weeks ago over margaritas :)and I have since had to rethink some of the things I said..we were discussing being so in love with someone that you are willing to stay with them and work things out regardless..loving unconditionally...I think I agreed with you having loved someone that much..and if I'm not mistaken Brenda disagreed with us and we all agreed that was because she had never truly loved anyone...in rethinking I realized that regardless of how much you love someone that doesn't mean that you have to be a fool...that you have to give up your pride, compromise your morals, give up your sense of self, your independence...you shouldn't have to give any of that up...when in a relationship you should compliment each other..you have given up so much for this so called twisted relationship..and I know that you truly love him...your every word tells the story..the deep wounds being inflicted...but only you can change that...there is nothing I or anyone else can tell you that haven't been said before...but stop and listen to yourself for a minute...this man from all indications is a sexually deranged predator...is that the type of person you're going to subject your girl child to being around, he has no conscience...I think you owe her much more than that......you need to stop whining and crying and female dogging about your situation and become proactive...do something to change things...get out before he destroys you and your daughter...they say that love is blind...and I have been blinded before but never stupid...you are by no means stupid..you are beautiful, smart, young...did I mention beautiful ...and you have so much going for you to throw it all away on a worthless piece of crap....just the thought of him makes me want to puke...ok enough said...off my soapbox...I'm here for you anytime you need me...and I will be there for you regardless of the decisions you make...but to be totally honest with you I am really worried about your state of mind I pray for you on a daily basis that God will give you the strength to walk away ....I love you girl....Haze...

ugh... hearing too much 'poor me' in this thread - it's turned into a public pity party

Whatever happened to 'we've been made more than conqueror's'? Did you think that was only about spiritual matters? Give the sexual activity a rest, it'll be there when you are ready for it. If the guy can't wait, then he's not worth your time or energy. Your posts (and I'm not talking to anyone in particular, this seems to fit everyone right now) show the devastating effects sex can have on your psyche with someone you love but doesn't love you back... at what point do you decide you are worth more than that?

Only you can prevent forest fires... take responsibility for your own actions, love yourself as God loves you.

Couple of things....

1. Aimes Thank God you are a tad defensive around guys. That will give you a chance to heal and slow the hurt. I w