WOW!

I can't blame ya for feeling burnt my friend. That pastor did what was uncalled for. I can bet you a used piece of gum that it will be a cold day before either of them set foot in a church he pastors again.

shameful!

This article made my day. I am descended from Mormon pioneers who lived in Nauvoo, Illinois on both my Mother's and Father's side of the family. A couple of my ancestor's were killed in Nauvoo and many others died while crossing the plains.

I couldn't be more tickled.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">March 31, 2004
BY MICHAEL SNEED <mailto:msneed@suntimes.com> SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

The State of Illinois is saying it's sorry for something that happened 160 years ago.

And it's all because Ald. Ed Burke (14th) is a closet historian.

Last week, a resolution was quietly passed by the Illinois Legislature seeking "the pardon and forgiveness" of the Mormon Church for persecution that led to the expulsion of 20,000 members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1844 from Nauvoo, and the 1844 vigilante murder of Mormon leader Joseph Smith.

The resolution reportedly stunned Mormon Church President Gordon B. Hinckley, who was so touched by the apology he "had tears in his eyes," said a source.

The official apology, which was introduced by state Reps. Dan Burke (D-Chicago) and Jack Franks (D-Woodstock), meant so much to the Mormon church a delegation from Illinois led by Lt. Gov. Pat Quinn has been invited to Salt lake City to meet with Hinckley.

The delegation also includes Ald. Burke, his wife, Illinois Appellate Court Judge Anne Burke, Dan Burke (the alderman's brother) and Franks.
The thread that sewed closure to the 160-year-old Mormon tragedy began when the Burkes vacationed in Utah last year with their friends, Elaine and Burt Gordon. They were introduced to Lt. Gov. Olene Walker and her husband, Myron, a great-grandson of a Nauvoo survivor who helped establish Salt Lake City, the Rome of the Mormon Church.

"We spent dinner getting a rundown on Nauvoo and the Mormon expulsion," said Judge Burke.
"My husband, who is besotted with history -- especially Chicago history -- was fascinated by Nauvoo and the way the Latter-day Saints were treated," she added.

As a result, Ald. Burke spoke with Rep. Burke, and a resolution was drafted in February.
When the Burkes returned to the Gordon home in February and reported on the draft of the resolution, they had no idea the reaction would be so emotional.

Walker, who had since been elected governor, immediately called Hinckley, who summoned the Burkes to his inner sanctum.

"It was amazing to see how personally he took the state's gesture," Judge Burke added. "He was moved to tears. Three generations have come and gone since the Mormon expulsion, but to them it's like it happened yesterday. Most have relatives who fled Nauvoo and they heard the story all their lives.

"When Nauvoo was settled it was the 10th-largest city in the United States," she said. "It was a thriving community that was forced out and left in the dead of night to ensure their safety.
"We thought it was about time to apologize."
And they will do so on April 7th -- one day after the 174th anniversary of the church's founding.

The Burkes are devout Catholics, with Judge Burke presiding over the National Review Board, which is examining allegations of sexual abuse by priests in the U.S.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Joel,

Sorry that I'm not more aware than I am but not absolutely sure I understand this. Was the Nauvoo expulsion like a holocaust? Were people murdered simply because they were Mormon. Are the Nauvoo a tribe of native Americans? This tells me that something horrible happened and is finally being acknowleged but I'm not sure I understand it.

I would be more than happy to fill you in on a little Mormon persecution history. This is pretty long and hits most of the highlights or lowlights of our history as a church.

You may or may not know, but the LDS church was founded in upstate NY in 1830. In about 1831, there was enough trouble for Joseph Smith (first Prophet of the Church) and his family (false imprisonment, mobbing, and general harassment) that the church moved (the whole church) to Kirtland, OH. Kirtland is about 15 minutes from Cleveland, OH by car these days. If they had known what was coming in Kirtland, they may well have just endured the harassment in New York.

In Kirtland, the Prophet Joseph Smith was tarred and feathered for the first time. When the mob broke into his home to take him away, his infant son was exposed to the harsh weather conditions and died a few weeks later due to the exposure. Most of the persecution in Kirtland centered on Joseph Smith as he was mobbed repeatedly and poisoned a couple of times resulting in some serious illness. While the body of the Church was in Kirtland, a second group of Mormons was taking root in Missouri. In November of 1833, word was received in Kirtland that the Mormons in Jackson County, Missouri had been forcefully expelled from their homes and forced to remove themselves from the county. The expulsion was accompanied by all the usual acts of mob violence – burning homes, killing innocent people, raping the women and looting. The Mormons from Jackson County fled into Clay County where they spent the ensuing winter in improvised shelters. Many died from the exposure.

Back in Kirtland when this news was received, Joseph Smith put together an expedition of about 400 men to go to Missouri bringing provisions for the Mormons who had been expelled from their homes. He had also received an assurance from the Governor of Missouri at the time that if Joseph could muster an army to protect the Mormons, he would support them in reclaiming their homes in Jackson County. When Joseph and his group of Mormons arrived in Missouri to assist their brothers and sisters in the gospel to reclaim their homes, the Governor reneged on his promise of support, and the Mormons were unable to their property. The Missouri Mormons were forced to start over and create a new settlement in Clay County Missouri. Joseph disbanded his small expedition and they all returned to Kirtland, OH.

Persecution in Kirtland then intensified and by 1837, the Mormons who remained in Kirtland picked up and moved 850 miles to Far West, Missouri. Well things went bad there as well. In the summer of 1838 there was an election of some sort held in Gallatin, MO, some early Missouri settlers sought to prevent Mormons from voting as they tended to vote in a block and wielded a lot of political influence. One of the Mormons proceeded to polling booth and while he was voting was attacked a fight broke out and while no one was killed, there were several injured. However, rumors have a tendency to embellish the truth and what was in reality a fist fight eventually grew to be a battle to the death in which 7 non-Mormon Missourians were rumored to have been killed. This provided all the ammunition needed for the anti-Mormons to step up their persecution of the Mormons. Various Mormon settlements were besieged. In Dewitt, a military force was held off for weeks by only a few Mormons who the anti-Mormons were attempting to starve by cutting off all means of escape. Eventually they reached an agreement whereby the Mormons in Dewitt would abandon their homes and leave. This only encouraged anti-Mormons elsewhere in Missouri. Saints were driven from their homes and their homes were burned. They flocked to larger settlements of Mormons seeking refuge. Eventually, there were actual military clashes. The Missouri state militia attacked the Mormons. The Mormons repelled the militia in a battle at Crooked River. The report that reached Governor Boggs of Missouri was that the Mormons had massacred the state militia forces. Governor Boggs ordered his state militia to war upon the Mormons and issued what Mormons refer to as the “Extermination Order” which stated “The Mormons must be treated as enemies and must be exterminated or driven from the state.” By the end of October 1838, the Missouri state militia had surround Far West, MO (the main Mormon settlement) with over 2,000 men and laid siege to the settlement. A group of 240 of them attacked an outlying Mormon settlement known as Haun’s Mill, killing 17 women and children and wounding 13 others. One 10-year-old boy was killed and his killer was overheard by a 7-year-old boy who was shot and injured saying, “Nits will make lice, and if he had lived he would have become a Mormon.” So in answer to your question, Yes, people were shot and killed simply because they were Mormon. After the Haun’s Mill Massacre, there was an agreement reached whereby Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum turned themselves over to the militia in order to avert open warfare on the rest of Far West, Missouri. After Joseph’s arrest, the Mormon militia disbanded and the Missouri militia moved into the settlement raping and pillaging as they went.

In February of 1839, after living with little shelter since November 1838 and while Joseph Smith was still in prison, the church left Missouri for Illinois. For about a year and a half following November of 1838 the conditions the Mormons lived in were pretty meager/bordering on starvation. During that time they came to Illinois and founded the city of Nauvoo (a Hebrew word meaning “Beautiful”). While draining the swampland of Nauvoo and living in a temporary “tent-city”, several of the Mormons were infected with Malaria. In April of 1839, Joseph and Hyrum Smith were allowed to escape from prison in Missouri and able to join the Mormons in Nauvoo. In Nauvoo the Mormons had peace for a season. In 1842, the usual hostility arose, as the Saints were a powerful political block. In 1843 internal dissension within the church arose and several Mormons left the church and sought to destroy it. In 1844 an illegal newspaper began publishing libel and slander against the church and its leaders. The Nauvoo city council agreed to put down the illegal press and did so. Those who owned the press sought to the state for redress and Joseph and Hyrum Smith were again arrested and taken to Carthage, Illinois to prison. While in Carthage an armed mob stormed the prison and martyred the prophet Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum. Nauvoo continued to prosper as a city and grew to be one of the largest in the country. The Church’s enemies had assumed that the death of Joseph Smith would spell the death of the Church as well. That the church continued to prosper under the leadership of Brigham Young was a source of constant irritation. Efforts were made by the Church’s enemies to expel them from the state. When the men accused of Joseph’s murder were cleared in a trial during 1845, it was a signal that anti-Mormons were not going to be stopped by the government and the persecution began to rage full-steam ahead. As things escalated the Mormons agreed to leave the state in order to avoid open conflict like they had experienced in Missouri. The leaders of the church were forced to go into hiding in order to escape the continuing mob-violence and countless attempts on their lives. Once again the Mormons were forced to abandon their homes in the dead of winter and began to leave Nauvoo in February of 1846. Once again because of their forced and hasty exodus, many Mormons simply abandoned homes and possessions and were forced to live outdoors in the harsh winter conditions. The suffering was great. The majority of the Mormons crossed a frozen Mississippi river in February to the Iowa side and set up temporary shelter. Several journal accounts recollect looking a back across the river during the night after they left hearing cannon fire and watching the city burn in ruins as the mobs moved in and ransacked the city. Those Mormons who had yet to leave Nauvoo and were caught by the mobs were held at gunpoint and ordered to deny their faith in the LDS church or be shot. Many escaped harm and were simply thrust from their homes, many were shot. The city of Nauvoo was literally destroyed. The Temple the Mormons had built there stood for one year before it finally was destroyed in 1848 only to be rebuilt in 2002.

Eventually the Mormons that had fled the city of Nauvoo established a temporary city known as Winter Quarters in Iowa to house the Saints as they prepared to take their exodus even further into the Western, unsettled portion of the continent. They did begin the exodus to what is today known as Utah in 1847 and the first of the Mormon Pioneers arrived in Utah on July 24, 1847. Over the next forty years Mormons moved across the country to Utah. The Nauvoo Mormons came first but then converts from Europe began to come to the USA as well and make the trek West. In the early years, before the transcontinental railroad was completed, the journey was perilous and thousands of Mormons died while crossing the plains. In some way, each of those Mormons who died were martyrs for their religion and their deaths are surely to be accounted for by those who caused the migration to the west through their bigotry and persecution in Missouri and Illinois.

Pretty much we were left alone in Utah, until the Federal Government declared War on Utah in 1854. It fizzled out pretty quickly and not much happened so I guess you could say the Mormons finally won a war.

Not really a holocaust but nonetheless pretty shocking to realize what happened in this country not so very long ago. My personal connection to this historical tragedy is that I am descended on my Mother’s side from Joseph Smith’s cousin George A. Smith, a survivor and witness of all of the persecution. My father’s side of the family also was in Nauvoo but did not join the church until after the persecutions in Missouri. Both sides of the family crossed the plains and I have relatives who lie in unknown graves along the trail between Iowa and Salt Lake City.

Why isn't this taught in American History? That's rhetorical no need to reply. The Mormons now have a special place in my heart along with the Native Americans. I'm only second generation American. In spite of that I'm sorry for what happened to your family. From B.C. to today, nobody seems to have learned the lesson we all need to learn.

Today (April 6, 2004) is the 174th anniversary of the restoration of the Gospel. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized on this day in Fayette, New York on April 6, 1830.

As for why this stuff isn't taught in American History, I don't really know. It's also confusing to me that the influence Mormons had in settling the Western US is decidedly not emphasized. When you consider that Brigham Young created settlements stretching from Calgary in the North to San Diego and everywhere in between it's hard to imagine the West even being settled at all without the influx of Mormons. Most people know we settled Salt Lake and Las Vegas but don't realize that it was actually a Mormon who first discovered gold at Sutter's Mill.

I also don't want to give the wrong impression. While there was a lot of persecution to be sure, there were also many miracles and heartwarming stories of kindness manifested towards Mormons. It's not as though every single person in Missouri and Illinois were a part of the Mobs and in many cases, those not involved with Mobs or Mormons did make a difference in preventing many deaths.

Joel,

I'm glad that you confirmed my belief/hope that not all were bad. I don't hink you gave any sort of wrong impression. You presented facts.

Joel I couldn't agree more.

I understand that they can't teach any particular church history since the aclu heyday in the 60's getting everything banned. But the persecution of the Mormon church and the killings is part of our history. Not to belittle it but they gloss over the "trail of tears" and the whole issue of slavery in modern textbooks too.

We get a "well bleached" history in this country it is often quite far from reality!

So I've posted a lot in here recently after not very much activity. Today I would ask for your prayers for the Prophet and President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Gordon B. Hinckley. Yesterday around five o'clock his wife of nearly 67 years, Marjorie Pay Hinckley passed away.

This is man and woman who are beloved by Mormons the world over as the leaders of the LDS church. On a personal note, I've met President Hinckley on many occassions, he spoke at my grandfather's funeral and again at my grandmother's funeral and has a fairly close relationship with my father. Gordon B Hinckley and Marjorie Pay Hinckley are the two greatest people I have ever met. Thoroughly in touch with God and living their lives at the will of the Holy Spirit. Say what you want about Mormons, but these two are the most Christ-like people I know striving to walk in his footsteps every day and follow his example.

It's hard for me to imagine life without my wife after only five years of marriage. My heart aches for President Hinckley after losing his sweetheart of 67 years.

Absolutely Joel. Prayers going up right now.

My prayers are certainly being used in full force for the Hinckleys. Sister Hinckley was one of the greatest women that ever walked the earth. She has always been incredibly enthusiastic, and I have never seen a picture of her without a smile. She just added a great spark to everyone's life, even if you were just reading about her. Her long age, according to her, can only be attributed to "always being happy."
I will certainly miss her smile and wonderful example to all. Luckily, however, her example did not die, and I will continue to try to follow it.

ericm,

It's the only good thing about death for those left behind. "her example did not die"

Amen Thom!


Eric and Joel, I will certianly pray!

What Steve and Thom said! Praying too!!

yeah sorry dude i will pray for you and your "prophet"

No Problem. That sort of epitomizes the reason I started posting on this site in the first place.

Say what you want about us, but our commitment to Christ is sincere and complete.

I may add that I probably misjudged most Christians as far too judgmental regarding the Mormon Faith before coming here. What's really remarkable about this website is that most people who post here are very level-headed and willing to give a fair amount of consideration to what others say. I've really enjoyed being and I appreciate the support that people on this board have given me.

I also wanted to post a link or two about Marjorie Pay Hinckley and Gordon B. Hinckley in case anyone is interested.

This article "Every bit his equal" was written about a year ago. And this article announcing her passing.

I also want to thank everyone who has remembered the Hinckley family in their prayers.

Very interested... Thank you Joel!!!

Been a while, but thought I'd respond when I have time. I've done a bit of reading and would like for you to clear up some things. I'll post them one by one, please respond and I'll go on to the next one if the response answers the points or we can discuss it more:

The detailed history and civilization described in the Book of Mormon does not correspond to anything found by archaeologists anywhere in the Americas. The Book of Mormon describes a civilization lasting for a thousand years, covering both North and South America, which was familiar with horses, elephants, cattle, sheep, wheat, barley, steel, wheeled vehicles, shipbuilding, sails, coins, and other elements of Old World culture. But no trace of any of these supposedly very common things has ever been found in the Americas of that period. Nor does the Book of Mormon mention many of the features of the civilizations which really did exist at that time in the Americas. The LDS church has spent millions of dollars over many years trying to prove through archaeological research that the Book of Mormon is an accurate historical record, but they have failed to produce any convincing pre-columbian archeological evidence supporting the Book of Mormon story. In addition, whereas the Book of Mormon presents the picture of a relatively homogeneous people, with a single language and communication between distant parts of the Americas, the pre-columbian history of the Americas shows the opposite: widely disparate racial types (almost entirely east Asian - definitely not Semitic), and many unrelated native languages, none of which are even remotely related to Hebrew or Egyptian.

???