I was in a "christian" (Yeah... right... more athiests than christians.) chatroom, where the topic of masturbation came up.

While I got the athiest view on it ... there weren't many christians who were willing to state their view. What do you think? Sin, or not?

Should this be classified under sexual impurity? Impure thoughts?

I think everyone went to find their 10 foot pole...



will gather myself together and post some thoughts, after I can think of them...

Hmmmm...I'm interested to hear everyone's take on this, because I really don't know what to say! Pretty sure it's a sin (although wouldn't it be much easier to be a Christian single and remain pure if it wasn't!) but I'm not sure what classification it would go under... I've wondered this myself to be honest...you couldn't always classify this under impure thoughts, because it doesn't always require you to think impure thoughts. (I've heard! ) And you aren't actually violating yourself by joining with someone outside of marriage...so what would it be classified as? Where in the bible does it say that this is wrong? I'm sure it has to be somewhere! (now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to find my 10 foot pole! I looked for it and couldn't find it...hence the reason why I ended up posting!)

Here's a couple of verse I found.

Genesis 49:4

"Turbulent as the waters, you will no longer excel, for you went up onto your fathers bed, onto my couch, and defiled it."

Doesn't really say it's wrong... but...

Deuteronomy 23 9-14

This one I found in my bible searcher thingy under "masturbation." Although I'm not sure they're talking about urine or... uh... yeah.

so what did the verse in deuteronomy say?

Oh... Yeah... right... hahaha.

23:9-14

"When you are encamped against your enemies, keep away from everything impure. If one of your men is unclean because of nocturnal emission (?), he is to go outside the camp and stay there. But as evening approaches he is to wash himself and at sunset he may return to the camp. Designate a place outside the camp where you can go to relieve yourself. As part of your equipment, have something to dig with, and when you relieve yourself, dig a hole and cover up your excrement. For the lord your God moves about in your camp to protect you and to deliever your enemies to you. Your camp must be holy so that he will not see among you anything indecent and turn away from you."

Well... after reading it again, it probably isn't urine.

But then, if God were to turn away from you it must be bad...

Then again, he'd probably not wanna stay and watch either.

I always thought that was just talking about normal everyday bodily functions...since they didn't have toilets and all...??? But what do I know?

Deuteronomy 23
9
When you are encamped against your enemies, keep away from everything impure.
10
If one of your men is unclean because of a nocturnal emission, he is to go outside the camp and stay there.
11
But as evening approaches he is to wash himself, and at sunset he may return to the camp.
12
Designate a place outside the camp where you can go to relieve yourself.
13
As part of your equipment have something to dig with, and when you relieve yourself, dig a hole and cover up your excrement.
14
For the LORD your God moves about in your camp to protect you and to deliver your enemies to you. Your camp must be holy, so that he will not see among you anything indecent and turn away from you.

Whenever we are engaged in something that is sexual, I believe God always turns away. I don't have to state the obvious...masturbation is something that you do in private. I don't think that the Lord peeks in when a married couple is in the midst of passion tho either.

Here, in this passage, I'm not sure the bible is clear on the circumstance. When it speaks of a nocternal emission, it's not clear if that is something like a wet dream (excuse my forwardness) or if it is masturbation. Either way, the man was expected to leave the camp because it was a Holy place and not to be defiled.

If it is sin, so is lust a sin. Sometimes lust occurs when you least expect it. A particular thought about someone, a fleeting image...hard to put a harness on those things.

Sometimes things totally nonsexual will strike a cord and bring on unexpected responses.

If I may be so bold...I would've really liked the bible to have said...

Commandment 11:

Do Not Masturbate...

( of course, I am wishing that purely for the purpose of answering any questions others may have on the subject )

Well said, embie!!! My thoughts exactly...it would be so much easier to explain it to those who are a little in the gray on this issue...ROFLOL.

For the record: I'm admiting NO guilt. Just a simple question.

I think we're pleading a collective 5th...

pleading the 5th? bah...I'm not sure...what was it we were talking about???!

A good question that we will all find out one day,but for now I think that it can be summed up in dying to your flesh daily. When are not made sinfull by what we eat, but by what comes out of our hearts. When you are thinking impure thoughts, we are coveting something that we do not have. Even if that person is in your mind and not physically there, you are mentally depriving yourself of God's best for you.

innerdawg

<----I just noticed... My icon is really cute. Who picks those out?

Hey Michelle, we go together.

very good point...but what if you're not thinking anything??!!

*

Too cute, Ashley! My guess is that Allen picks them out....mine fits me pretty well, eh?

Yeah..we go together...fitting since we think alot alike!

Not to change the subject or divert the topic or anything... ROFLOL.

We keep posting one minute away from eachother.

Ashley...don't be confused! I was talking to whit! He was talking about thinking impure thoughts!

Good answer Whit, but I for one will be really bummed if God says..."Nah...I didn't care about that..."

Michelle: Oh, I wasn't confused. I was just rethinking that post. We're a lot alike?


Embie: Hahahahahahaha roflsmmch!!!!

yeah, ash...you say alot of the things I think.

Good to know that ONE person doesn't think I'm crazy.
<img src="graemlins/wavey.gif" border="0" alt="" />

I dunno 'bout that. I always thought I was crazy...maybe we both are!

Naaah...I think maybe we're the only sane ones.

Define "sane"

Seriously, the gist of it I think is sex belongs within a marriage, anything you do besides that is well not-so-good

aleina

i dont know the exact verse but Jesus said that if you sin in mind it's the same as sinning in the flesh

I don't want to get all graphic here...

But what if you're "thinking" about it with your future spouse? Then, technically, you're not thinking about sinning. It's pure in your mind.

future thinking = fantasizing = lust...

Just clear your mind... deep breaths... One, One Thousand; Two, One Thousand...

yeah but you're not really married to that person

aleina

That I can answer...! The Bible says that if we lust after someone, then we have allready sinned...and if you are thinking about it with your future husband, then it's not really pure, because doing it with your future husband wouldn't be pure until he is no longer your future husband but your husband...

Heck, if the sin stage ended as soon as you got engaged, I would prolly be engaged right now just so I could be pure!! ROFLOL

Ok...this may seem crazy but on the subject...My cousin is a Christian but has kept many world views because she sees them as right. Well one of those is masturtion. She taught a small group when she was in college about the good affects of it. Well on a strictly physical basis, leaving the mind out of it, masturbation is said to be by many doctors as a very healthy thing to do.i dont know what you would do. This is just a practice i dont choose to engage in. If you even have doubts about it, you shouldnt be doing it! Anymore thoughts?

Erin Grace

Somehow I missed this topic

The verses you guys are talking about is in Matthew Chapter 5 or so right after He talks about be-attitudes.

Hold on.. gotta go get my notes from today's service.

Nevermind, they are outside and it's almost 2am, I'll try from memory. No comments from the peanuts™ gallery

Is it sin? Yes and no - 99 times outta 100 lust is part of the equation... Will it make you go blind? My eyesight is... ummmm.. never you mind about my eyesight The actual act itself is probably not considered sin, as you aren't bringing someone else into the equation. Lust probably comes in before the act even begins.

Matthew 5:27,28
"You have heard that it was said, `Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

The nocturnal emmissions were most like what we call wet dreams - in those days many things were deemed "unclean" and mainly so that disease and its modes of transmission would be minimized - the same deal was done with women during their monthly cycle - neither are unnatural or sinful, just normal bodily functions.

We can face it, 95% of all males (prolly 99%) have or do masturbate and I believe the figure is ~80% or more for women. Does "commoness" make it right? No, but don't beat yourself up over it... as white-dog said: die daily to the flesh...

Here's a scripture to consider. Written by the man who wrote 2/3 of the New Testament and considered to be the strongest Christian who ever lived.

Philippians 3:12-14 (paraphrased)
Not that I ... have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Paul is saying he cannot live up to the perfection he expects in himself and understands that the journey is more important than the destination. Live your life "holy and acceptable" before God. When you stumble, get back up and continue on the journey. Feed the good dog in your life with prayer, bible study, fellowship with other Christians and starve the bad dog of lust by not visiting those sites, reading those magazines, viewing those movies, etc. The good dog will win more often than not. Just remember it's a daily battle...


[note: no double-entendres meant anywhere, embie

None taken Allen

and BTW...contacts work wonders, don't they?

they help

So does a nice cocktail right before I take mom out to drive. For her... Not me.

That helps her vision?

While we are on the subject... (weren't we?) Here's a new game I found tonight. My personal best is 257mph

http://www.vectorlounge.com/04_amsterdam/jam/flamjam.html

well, you guys should be "masters" of that domain

I believe 375 is quite a bit faster than 257

magic fingers...

Just call me Wild Thing

Man you can tell I've been married for years, I can't break 100mph

ROFLOLOLOLOL

Embie
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this is a ten foot pole.

OMG, Allen! Hahaha... You're crazy.

I got 441.

1507...

Eh?

You are goooooddd... I stil haven't beaten my prev score yet

me either...

but I'm sure you'll beat it before long...

I haven't broken 1000 again...

Maybe it was a mistake? Or my mouse just moved funny? I dunno...

bah... you are just tryin to make us look bad

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by embie:
me either...

but I'm sure you'll beat it before long... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

599 mph!

We are the champions, my fri-end....

We'll go on fighting, until the end...

We are the champions

WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!

Somethin... of the world!

Champion monkey spanker...

you must be very proud...

Still not as good as ashley, but getting there

Hey! Dig that new Trio

Jazzy man...

groovy

Haha... I can't beat it again...

But! If you speed up your mouse setting, you'll get farther--although, I only discovered that AFTER I beat the monkey.

635...

See Allen...You have to speed it up to better spank that monkey...

Get to it...

Not to change the subject back to the subject, but I wanted to voice an opinion here .... go figure

when i was young, like in pre teens, i read a book that addressed this topic. it was called "are you there god, its me margaret ?" and it was good for a young girl to reflect on masterbation.

in my religion it is taught that it is wrong to do, a sin. now i never heard my mother address the topic, as we never talked about any topic relating to sex other than "it wont be done until marriage", so i took it upon myself to form my own opinion.

i personally, believe that it isnt a sin, as sin defined as something that hurts your soul or mankind. if masterbation is something that is a help like someone said physically rather than bending to the actual temptaions of the flesh, then it should be an exercise.

to address one more thing then yall can talk about your game or whatever, but ...

what if you exercise in this while married ? or after marriage ? with your spouse ? does it change the sin of it ? can we really get inside someone's mind to find intent ? it is kind of like convicting someone on 1st degree murder rather than murder 2, one being with mal intent and the other out of "passion" or maybe without consious thought at all.

who knows, i think it is a personal choice