Whew, is it gettin hoat n hereer?

Yea; it sure is geting hot in here! Goodness who new we could stir up a hornets nests over such a naughty little topic.

It is always hot in here when Allen gets to arguing. Be ready.

Funny Michelle, really was ....

My husband argues the same way you do Allen, and i could just explode, restates what I have said or what was said, then refers to it to illustrate his point. "cut and paste" arguing is what I call it.

I think that the whole conversation that went on for two pages was about INTENT of action, and that the women were defending thier intent, which Allen can NOT gague, and then Allen was trying to address the scripture side of masterbation being sexual whther or not you intend it to be.

well, we disagree, just dont make assumptions next time, it would driveyou mad if we did that about those glorious creatures .......... MEN !!

Your husband sounds pretty smart.

I was only attempting to answer the questions from a scriptural standpoint, your intent is your intent - no one (not even another female) can gauge that for you. It is sexual whether you are thinking about Tom Cruise or cruise missiles or the laundry. Whether or not it is immoral is between you and God, there are no clear-cut absolutes.

What about then, when young boys engage int he act without knowing about sex or that it is sexual ? do they then have to take up the "immoral between you and God" issue ? All actions arent right and wrong, or sexual in nature, violent in nature etc. if there are no "clear cut absolutes" then how can you say that "it is sexual" ... you are contradicting yourself

There are no clear cut absolutes in the Bible that masturbation is wrong. Please read my long post on the previous page.

It is still sexual... your age doesn't make a difference. There's a lot of things that are wrong that young children do, "age of accountability" comes into factor here in this and most situations where "right/wrong/immoral" are questioned.

Whether or not it is immoral is between you and God, still.

Gonna have to agree with Allen there.

I think the answer to your question here, angel is accountability. You are accountable for what you know...and I'll leave it at that, because Allen beat me to it.

true, but what i am getting out of what allen is saying is that (correct me if i am wrong allen) the bible or moral teaching says that masterbation is wrong when lust is involved right ? and what i am trying to say is that if lust is not involved or isnt consciously in mind at the time, then it shouldnt be a wrong "act". true, i agree age of accountability is a given, but until that point, the act is not considered wrong, IF you believe it is wrong at that point. right ???

reason why i am pushing this is not solely for this topic's point or resting conclusion, but it applies to many different areas of question, so wanted to apply it when i make my own conclusion.

I think if we seperate the 2, then it is more understandable. The Bible does state lust is wrong (there are some scripture earlier in this thread for that). It doesn't mention masturbation... so we really can't say with a blanket statement one way or the other.

Kinda like television - the Bible doesn't specifically state "do not watch tv", but if watching television is a hindrance to you, keeping you from God's will, putting trash in your mind, causing you to miss out on the good things in life just because you are vegetating, then most likely tv is not for you. It causes you to stumble in your walk with God.

"Let me conclude with some excellent advice from Dr. Dobson (taken from his book, Preparing for Adolescence):"It is my opinion that masturbation is not much of an issues with God. It’s a normal part of adolescence, which involves no one else. It does not cause disease, it does not produce babies, and Jesus did not mention it in the Bible. I’m not telling you to masturbate, and I hope you won’t feel the need for it. The best thing I can do is suggest that you talk to God personally about this matter and decide what He wants you to do.""

Lemme drag this on some more........

Lust comes in two forms

1. Lust of the eyes, heart, imagination

2. Lust of the flesh, addiction, appetite

They can both be godly or they can both be ungodly.....

As for little children I would say nah but as they develop into adolescents you could quickly be dealing with a lust of the flesh issue, aka doing it just for the sheer sensation of the act.

But all in all it comes down to relationship with God. (like several have said!)

heheh

Forgot that lust can be a good thing Lust == desire == longing

Thanks for the tips Steve

This is something a read in the texas examiner in chuck shepards news of the weird about our topic. In Andover, Minn. a sunday school teacher was convicted of a misdemeanor for counseling a teenage boy that a good way to curb his masturbation habit was to write "What would Jesus do"? on his ( you know what). I always read that every week because it so funny, but I can't believe someone would go to such extremes. I'm glad the person got convicted, lets just hope that the kid was not stupid enough to do it. Sorry if i offened anyone. I just thought when I read this I had to post this.

Sounded like good advice to me.

Um...
um......
ummm.........

ha

So Allen you're gonna follow his advice?

STOP!!!

Please, Allen...don't answer that; we don't want to know.

(he prolly said that because he allready has taken that advice...)

HE sure is laughing right now huh ? What a thought, how did we get on this ???

I sure didn't steer it there

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Allen:
Sounded like good advice to me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Uhummmm

Gone for a few days and all the dirt starts flyin...

lemme just throw this out to you...

On Monday I had to meet the sea kayaking guy about our trip. He was an awesomely funky looking, interesting man with scruffy whiskers and a ponytail. Bluest eyes I ever saw...

We locked eyes and had a moment ) DANG, I hate when men don't wear rings....

anyway...rethinking my position, I think I may have been wrong...I don't think it's very edifying and certainly not glorifying to God...