And Steve, LOL...I was not really haggling over percentages...I was trying to get our male participants in this discussion to understand that there's a difference between guys and girls.

For guys, I don't doubt that his figures were right on target. Especially since I've heard the stats on how many times the average man thinks about sex in a day. But females, (and I'm not saying this makes us any better, just different) don't have to be sexually aroused to have an orgasm, or even to feel the need for one.

And it has nothing to do with the fact that sex is devoid of feeling or thought. You have to be very thoughtful when you are with a partner... So stop putting words in my mouth, Allen.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by foreverchanged:

But there is a BIG difference between sex and masturbation. Take the second person that comes into the equation, your partner. That's where all the feeling and thought comes in. I've been with a few people...not many, but more than I'd like to have been with, and I can definitely tell the difference -- trust me. If you can't, then I feel really really sorry for you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am pretty sure you don't need to feel sorry for me.

Masturbation is a form of sex, you can't deny that. You don't have to have another person (or 2 ) in the room for sex to be going on.

"I just love relations... sometimes I have relations with myself." - grandma clump

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Allen:
If not, then the mother who drowned her 5 children has a case. We are still responsible for our actions - drunk, drug-hazed, hormonally-challenged ... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think you misread my post....... Yes I am responsible for my ACTIONS, but how do you suggest I control my hormones??? I was trying to explain one of the reasons why women feel the itch Read Michelle's post that I'm qouting below, that is exactly how it is for (most) women - which is TOTALLY different from how it is for (most) men.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by foreverchanged:
Somebody allready answered that question in part when they talked abou the cycle. I think masturbation is hardly equatable with killing 5 children. That was worse than comparing it to stealing candy.......</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with everything you said in that post

You can't control your hormones, you can control your actions tho. Hormones don't move your hand.

You're misreading her again, oh man who only understands what he wants to.

She said "Yes I am responsible for my ACTIONS, but how do you suggest I control my hormones??? I was trying to explain one of the reasons why women feel the itch".

Note, she didn't say why women indulge in the itch. She said that she takes full responsibilities for her actions.

The question here was what spurrs it on...followed by your sarcstic choices of boredom, ect. So the question (answered in many ways) is hormones. We can control what we do with the feeling, but we cannot control the feeling itself.

That is what she said.

Austin Powers: What's your point, Vanessa?

Allen, sweetie...I think you got lost. The favorite movie line thread is that way.

My point is stop putting words in our mouths. Thanks.

I didn't deny that masturbation is sexual...I think you're misreading my motives here. I'm not trying to prove that it's okay...I was just discussing why women feel the need to masturbate, and adding to it with the fact that men aren't necessarily involved in the equation....not even in our thoughts.

But masturbation is different than sexual intercourse, and when it comes to having sexual partners, it is a whole different matter...that's all I was saying...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by foreverchanged:

I'm not saying sex is devoid of feeling or thought. No, no, NOOOOO!!! I'm saying for women (some of us) masturbation is/can be.

But there is a BIG difference between sex and masturbation. Take the second person that comes into the equation, your partner. That's where all the feeling and thought comes in. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not putting words in your mouths, it is easy enough for anyone to read what you wrote. My simply repeating what you wrote is not very useful, I am drawing conclusions based on what you wrote tho.

Here is where you state masturbation and sex are 2 different things - masturbation is one aspect of sex, it is sex tho - which is what my post was stating.

I understand logic is different between men and women - for one, men have some With women, your logic is more fluid... it changes based on your current argument - which leads us to your last post in which you say sexual intercourse is different from masturbation... ummmm... duh!

Bottom line goes back to my long post... it's between you and God - search the scriptures and work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Allen:
With women, your logic is more fluid... it changes based on your current argument</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is so illogical

I actually wasn't saying you were putting words in my mouth, Allen...and I understand your point.

What I was talking about was your misinterpretation of aleina's posts...that's it. You have a valid point, and as I said, I agree and got alot out of your long post.

Better now?

Oh, but you are twisting my words a little here:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Here is where you state masturbation and sex are 2 different things - masturbation is one aspect of sex, it is sex tho - which is what my post was stating.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, masturbation is sexual, but when I said "sex and masturbation are two different things", I meant sexual intercourse with another person. I think you know that.

And intercourse with another person and masturbation (even though they have common factors) are very different. The partner makes up the difference...

Just wanted to clear that up.

feel better?

Michelle You are just cold thats all......

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">the fact that men aren't necessarily involved in the equation....not even in our thoughts</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">it might be true but how can we live in denial about it if you just come out and say it!!!!!!

Steve, I am so glad you caught that. I was going for the "cold" effect there.

My favorite saying used to be (and I used it recently) "Why did God have to create man? He could have just given us vibrators and monkeys who know how to cut the grass."

'Course that's not really true, but...it sure makes me feel better to think about what the world would be like if it was just us women folk.

Haha, seriously tho you guys really do serve a purpose, and when I figure out what it is I'll let you know.

I think I'll not comment on the vib part of that post, in order to protect the not-so-innocent

I think you just commented on it...

that was about it, not on it

always gotta argue, don'tcha.

I'm gonna tellum to bury you upside down.