I remember it, but very vaguely. Maybe I should read it again.

Something a little more contemporary and a bit more mature would probably be of more use to you. Margaret was struggling with some issues I am pretty sure you have come to grips with by now

LOL...I remember that book, "If God loves me, why can't I get my locker open." Sorta reminds me of that one...

There's seems to be several good books out for guys as well:

Every Young Man's Battle http://www.family.org/resources/itempg.cfm?itemid=3208

Wild at Heart http://www.family.org/resources/itempg.cfm?itemid=2350

Not sure if they deal directly with masturbation, but appear to be excellent books. Looks like several others may have something to say on it, and some are for women:
http://www.family.org/resources/section.cfm?sid=545&pid=266

What I need to know is masturbation sinful or is it a basic human need?

Some have categorized masturbation as part of sex. Yet, children who have no understanding of what sex is engage in masturbation. I've heard from many Christians that it becomes wrong when you've dedicated your life to Christ. On the other hand pyschologist & other Christians deem it to be normal even healthy.

Not to be disrespectful, but I'm just curious. Our heavenly Father was just as human as any of us. He had to experience the same temptations as we did. If it is a basic human need, could Jesus have engaged in it? (I pray I am not offending my Savior.)

Children will also steal your candy... they have no understanding of right and wrong. They like candy and they like to feel good, we really can't use that for an argument either way

Frankly, I am pretty sure lust is part of the deal 95-99% of the time... draw your own conclusions there.

Maybe for guys, lust is always a factor, but to be completely honest, it has nothing to do with lust at least 90% of the time (with me, anyway). I'm not kidding...

Just because you guys are always thinking about sex doesn't mean that women are the same way. I don't even have to be thinking about sex or guys for that matter to get the "itch" as angel put it in another discussion. So how could that constitute as lust?

then what drives the urge? I don't think many can say "nothing, boredom, etc" - this is not some involuntary bodily-function like breathing or digestion.

Isn't this a "hush hush" topic...we're not even suppose to be talking about it.

Hey, aren't you two at work?

I agree with Foreverchanged about the fact that it doesn't always have to do with lust. Ambien is overrated...

By the way, Allen, that % is awfully high. Where'd you get that stat?

From my friends who are trying to make me believe otherwise...

And what does a sleeping pill have to do with this discussion?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Allen:
this is not some involuntary bodily-function like breathing or digestion.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">au contraire... a woman's hormones can go crazy during certain days of her cycle, for example when she is the most fertile. I don't think you can control THAT

If not, then the mother who drowned her 5 children has a case. We are still responsible for our actions - drunk, drug-hazed, hormonally-challenged ...

Here's some more info for those who might be struggling:

"While I certainly don’t want to contradict what your parents or your pastor believe, I’d like you to consider this:

It is the hidden fears, desires and temptations that cause us the most problems. As tough as this sounds, open up and discuss this struggle with a trusted adult—preferably your dad.

Masturbation is harmful if it’s done . . .

• while fantasizing about an immoral relationship (see Matthew 5:27-28).

• with pornography or any other "unclean picture" set before your eyes.

• to the point of becoming an uncontrollable habit. What’s uncontrollable? A general guide is several times a day every day, for months in a row. If that’s you, talk with someone.

If you don’t struggle with masturbation, great. There’s nothing wrong with you either. But if you do, don’t lose sleep over it and certainly don’t let guilt drive you away from God. Just be sure to avoid the danger zones.

Let me conclude with some excellent advice from Dr. Dobson (taken from his book, Preparing for Adolescence):"It is my opinion that masturbation is not much of an issues with God. It’s a normal part of adolescence, which involves no one else. It does not cause disease, it does not produce babies, and Jesus did not mention it in the Bible. I’m not telling you to masturbate, and I hope you won’t feel the need for it. The best thing I can do is suggest that you talk to God personally about this matter and decide what He wants you to do."

( http://www.family.org/teenguys/breakmag/departments/a0021191.html )

============================

Before we go further, I need to make the point that it’s easy to confuse normal sexual desire and conduct with addictive compulsions and gratification. A person can have a stronger-than-normal sexual appetite and not be a sex addict.

Addictive sex is done in isolation and is devoid of relationship. This doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s done while physically alone. Rather it means that mentally and emotionally the addict is detached, or isolated, from human relationship and contact. Addictive sex is “mere sex,” sex for its own sake, sex divorced from authentic interaction of persons. This is most clear regarding fantasy, pornography and masturbation. But even regarding sex involving a partner, the partner isn’t really a “person” but a cipher, an interchangeable part in an impersonal — almost mechanical — process. The most intimately personal of human behaviors becomes utterly impersonal.
Addictive sex is secretive. In effect, sex addicts develop a double life, practicing masturbation, going to porn shops and massage parlors, all the while hiding what they’re doing from others — and in a sense, even from themselves.
Addictive sex is devoid of intimacy. Sex addicts are utterly self-focused. They cannot achieve genuine intimacy because their self-obsession leaves no room for giving to others.
Addictive sex is victimizing The overwhelming obsession with self-gratification blinds sex addicts to the harmful effects their behavior is having on others and on themselves.
Addictive sex ends in despair. When married couples make love, they’re more fulfilled for having had the experience. Addictive sex leaves the participants feeling guilty, regretting the experience. Rather than fulfilling them, it leaves them feeling more empty.
Addictive sex is used to escape pain and problems. The escapist nature of addictive sex is often one of the clearest indicators that it is present.

Like any addiction, sex addiction is progressive. It’s like “athlete’s foot of the mind,” as one person described it. It never goes away. It’s always asking to be scratched, promising relief. To scratch, however, is to cause pain and to intensify the itch.

( http://www.family.org/married/romance/a0018669.cfm )

==============================

You wanted to know if masturbation is a sin. To be honest, the Bible seems to be silent on this issue. However, most Christians who believe that masturbation is a sin quote what the Bible says about purity and lust. And I have to say, they do have a point. After all, masturbation is usually accompanied by sexual fantasies. I don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong with thinking about sex, but I do think a person’s sexual imagination has to be controlled. Most people who masturbate harbor fantasies that are plainly immoral. These should have no place in a Christian’s life.

Why is masturbation unmentioned in the Bible? I can only conclude that it is much less significant to God than it is to most of us. A lot of young Christians — especially boys — would put masturbation as the most significant battle line in their attempt to live as Christians. God does not, apparently, consider it even worth mentioning.

So, here’s my advice on this issue: Don’t think of yourself as weird for having a desire to masturbate. Many other Christian guys struggle with this too. And don’t harbor a bunch of guilt. Instead, talk to God about it. Honestly, God understands what you are going through. Tell Him how you feel, and ask Him for the strength to be self-controlled sexually. Ask God to help you steer clear of lust and immoral sexual fantasies.

( http://www.family.org/pplace/youandteens/a0020173.cfm )

===================================

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

I love when I get to say this in the right situations, but Allen, you are WRONG in your assumptions that women engage in this act 90 % of the time for lust. Not only are you not a woman, you havent read the majority of statistics that say "to sleep or boredom" are in the top reasons why woman take part in this. Lust isnt always a factor and so when you know this, you have to take a different approach toward answering this. I am sure you are trying to help, but to address the manner as if it is an act of lust, then you are off base.

You apparently aren't reading my posts completely then. I said it is a part of the equation, not the reason behind it or for it. I have attended a Christian singles conference in which the stats were given then, which is why I don't have them to point to in reference.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Allen:
then what drives the urge? I don't think many can say "nothing, boredom, etc" - this is not some involuntary bodily-function like breathing or digestion.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">still waiting on an answer to this...

Somebody allready answered that question in part when they talked abou the cycle. I think masturbation is hardly equatable with killing 5 children. That was worse than comparing it to stealing candy.

Hey, I'm not defending it...I really found that long post you made very informative, and it seemed to clear up some of the questions that I had...but your percentage is way off.

I'm going to embarass myself, but I'll go ahead and try to answer your question that you've asked twice now about what drives it. Honestly, I don't know...but I'll give you an example. I'll just be sitting there with Celeste watching Winnie the Pooh, and bam...you just feel that um...itch. I can ignore it and it goes away, but it will come back at random.

It's worse during a my cycle (and don't get all grossed out because you asked)...but it "happens" at random. I don't ever read dirty magazines, I don't watch porn...don't look at dirty pictures on the internet, and to be completely 100% honest with you, it's been weeks since I thought about sex. You can believe that or not believe it, but it's true. Our bodies are different than yours. Perhaps your statistics are correct about males when you say that 90 some odd percent of the time it is lust driven, but with females, I can attest to the fact that most of the time lust has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I usually only think of sex when provoked (ie a risque scene in a movie, but I try to avoid those)...in fact, I don't even see a really good looking guy and get all warm and fuzzy. I have to know a guy before I am attracted to him in that way, and I have to be attracted to him in that way in order for him to have that special effect on me when he walks by wearing really good smellin stuff or brushes just a little too close or something like that.

I can count on one hand the number of times in the year 2002 that feeling the urge to scratch the itch has been spurred by anything sexual whatsoever.

Again, not to make it sound unsinful, because if it's sin, it's sin...and not to try to convince anyone of anything besides the fact that most females don't even have to be sexually aroused in order to feel the need to .... well, you know.

It's not boredom...it's like that feeling when you feel like you have to sneeze and you can't. The urge to sneeze was completely unprovoked, but it's there nonetheless, and just as uncontrollable as the urge I'm speaking of. You will do just about anything to get that sneeze out...look at a light bulb, make funny faces...you just have to make that urge go away...

Sometimes it passes on it's own, and sometimes it doesn't. And I dare any of you guys to prove me wrong, because I have about 4 females here who seem to understand exactly what I'm saying.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by foreverchanged:
I can count on one hand the number of times in the year 2002 that feeling the urge to scratch the itch has been spurred by anything sexual whatsoever.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There wouldn't be any double-entendre's in that would there?

So you are saying it is sex devoid of any sexual feeling or thought? I thought only guys were blamed for that

Wow cool stuff all around.

and quit haggling over percents!!!!!!!! LOLOLOL

Clue us in (thank you Forever) any other sages out there? I do not understand the phenomenon as I do not work like that. The desire in men is almost assuredly always sexually lustful in its origins, well even through to the end.

That brings up a good question. OK conceeding that somehow it is possible to become sexually aroused without sex or lust at the root, does it stay that way throughout or does the sex/lust thing enter the picture once a person has started to do the act.

I forgot who said it (about this being a taboo subject) Actually WE (Christians) are the ones that SHOULD be talking about it!!!! If we don't we sure know who will and I don't want his opinion

God bless!

No double entendres intended there.

I'm not saying sex is devoid of feeling or thought. No, no, NOOOOO!!! I'm saying for women (some of us) masturbation is/can be.

But there is a BIG difference between sex and masturbation. Take the second person that comes into the equation, your partner. That's where all the feeling and thought comes in. I've been with a few people...not many, but more than I'd like to have been with, and I can definitely tell the difference -- trust me. If you can't, then I feel really really sorry for you.