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two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19615 09/19/00 06:16 AM
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foreverchanged Offline OP
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Okay, I know that God hears His children when we pray. And I know that I am His child. But the mind of this child has been poisoned with lies about how God not hearing us if we are in the wrong place or how one can think that they are a child of God when they are instead worshiping satan. Although I don't understand how this can be so according to all that I know about Him, I can't help but wonder because I was also told that all I know about Him could be a lie!
As much as I try to put these thoughts away from me and just dive into the word and find out for myself,
that much more the thoughts creep in and plague me to the point of interrupting my prayers and praise.
I try. I really do. Ignore the thoughts. Ignore the feelings. Ignore the fear. Cling to the truth that I know and tell the terror to be silent.
But I can't. So I pray God I BEG you to just take from me my life when I dont have the strength to give it to you.
And I don't have the strenght right now. And so I know that in our weakness He is strong. And yet I feel no comfort.
When did the words that once gave me comfort cease to still the storm in my soul? It is not because my heart is hard.
How can it be? It is broken in pieces. Where did my faith go? I say that I trust Him and yet the worries pile up.
The spirit is so willing but the flesh is weaker than ever. When did I start walking backwards instead of forwards?
Or was I ever walking in the right direction to begin with? I can't scream loud enough. Can't cry hard enough.
Can't grovel low enough. What do I have to do? I have lost my whole peace, and I don't know how to find Him.
I know He is right there and yet I don't know if I know Him the way I thought I did. Verging at tears constantly as hard as I try to
keep a stiff upper lip. For fear that I might be giving in to emotionalism?! On the edge of trembling I try to remain still for fear that I
will be accused of letting my feelings run my life. Ready to explode, and yet I hold back because I am so unsure of what it is that will come forth.
A tiny part of me wishing that the ones who are resoponsible for my new-found "knowledge" could get a small glimpse of the turmiol on the inside,
and yet deep down I know that I am the one who swallowed the forbidden fruit hook line and sinker. And if it were not on my shoulders, but instead on those of another,
I could not bring myself to wish this heartache on anyone. So what? Cant anyone hear me??? Does anyone see me? He knows the sparrow when it falls.
And it still falls. Will someone catch me, or am I going to hit the bottom?


-Michelle

The best laid plans are in my other pants. -- Newsboys
Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19616 09/19/00 09:13 AM
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Forever, just one point...

Remember in your other message, we discussed that spirit of confusion and depression? If someone brings you a spirit of fear, confusion, or doubt, you can be sure of one thing, it is from Satan. No matter what they say their intentions are, it is from Satan.

They may say all the right things, do all the right things, wear the right clothes, mumbo-jumbo the right way, and have scriptures to back them up, but if it is a spirit of confusion, then it is from Satan.

OK, not just one thing...

Remember this, you have some pretty good company in this...

Jesus Himself was tried and tempted by Satan using scripture...
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Jesus understands where you are forever, hold onto Him, not anyone else's doctrine. Rebuke that spirit of fear and confusion...

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This says that we did not recieve a spirit of fear, we rec'd the Spirit of sonship. The Spirit himself testifies that we are God's children!

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If God didn't give it to us, then where did it come from? The Bible says it is better for those people to have millstones around their neck and be tossed into the sea. Read on:
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Apparently Galations might answer a few of these questions:
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Forever, if no one else is there to catch you (I am), but if no-one else does, Jesus will. In our weakness, He is made strong. Whatever you do, put these so-called well-meaning people behind you, they are the workers of Satan, no matter what colorful Sunday-school words they preach.

Get and stay around those who lift your spirits, those who will pray for you and with you...

------------------
Allen


- Allen [Linked Image]
- I don't need things, I need people - mb © 2002
Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19617 09/20/00 06:07 AM
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Thank you Allen. I don't quite know what to say. It means alot that you care so much. I am still so confused and it feels like the confusion will never end. It plagues me constantly and although I have put the people behind me, the confusion is still there, and I cant get away from it no matter how hard I try. I don't know what is wrong with me and I am scared to death. I KNOW the fear isn't of God. And I KNOW that the confusion isn't of God. And that is what scares me so bad. It is worse when I pray than any other time. Or when I try to worship. I try so hard to put the thoughts out of my head. I TRY!!! So what is going on inside of me???
I don't understand. And I am trying to lean on Him and have faith...and it feels like I am falling farther and faster and I can't stop myself. I want to quit but I know I can't. I want to just say "screw it" and just go off somewhere and get away from everything...but you can't run away from God...it just seems like He's run away from me!!! So what now? I can't keep this up. I'm wasting time. And I'm being selfish. But for the life of me when I pray words fail me. And when I praise I don't feel like I mean it anymore. I didn't want this to happen and I just don't know where to go from here...I hate myself for feeling this way. We are not supposed to rely on feelings. We are supposed to rely on Him and with patience run the race that is set before us. So here I am impatient and losing heart. And powerless to stop it. ????


-Michelle

The best laid plans are in my other pants. -- Newsboys
Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19618 09/21/00 04:44 AM
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well, that makes 2 of us forever...

Sometimes those who strive for God the most walk through the deepest valleys to get there... David was a man after God's own heart, yet plenty of times he felt the need to beg God to not abandon him,

"Cast me not away from Thy presence, and take not Thy Holy Spirit from me..."

this was written after he had asked God to create a clean heart in him and renew his spirit.

I will never have all the answers for confusion, depression, despair... God knows I haven't had much, if any, answers for my friends around me this summer. Do know this, God will never leave you or forsake you - that He has promised, be patient in Him and seek peace with Him. Also know this, you have friends here that love you and will support you through this... allow us to be there for you...


Prayin,


------------------
Allen


- Allen [Linked Image]
- I don't need things, I need people - mb © 2002
Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19619 09/21/00 05:19 AM
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Again, Allen, thank you for taking the time out to help. I don't exactly know why I continue to feel this way. I feel so useless. I am not even after God's own heart. How can I be? It seems like I don't even know who He is anymore. And it's not Him that changed...so apparently I just never did know Him...I thought I did, but now I'm not so sure. He is the same yesterday, today and forever and me with my silly mood swings. What a girl. I am useless. Unworthy of any kind of task that He would want me to do...and why would He want me to do anything for Him??? I don't even know how to pray anymore. I swear I feel like I have just had some kind of crazy amnesia to everything that I used to know about His nature. I am trying to have patience, but apparently patience is a virtue that I have not yet acquired. And I am trying to just be still and know He is God, but that's easier said than done, isn't it? I feel like I am doing nothing but wasting His time. I wish I could just get a case of amnesia from the past month or so and just forget everything that I heard. And yet that little voice in the back of my mind wont let me. And I have to decide which voice that is...the voice that I'm supposed to listen to or the voice that I am supposed to rebuke and cast away. I just can't tell. How am I supposed to know? From one direction I hear that the confusion that I am having is a result of the untruths that I have been fed all of my life clashing with the truth that is just now being presented to me. And from the other I am hearing that it is just the opposite. The confusion is a result of the lies that I have listened to that are trying to cover the truth that I know. Don't go by personal experience. Just read the scripture. And yet I'm too darn stupid to understand what He says. It could fall under either interpretation that I want it to. So how do I read it as He intended it to be read? I am seeking. And I am knocking. And I am asking. And nada. Zilch. And I feel this desparation like time is running out and I dont understand. Why me? Why do I feel so attacked? I have nothing to offer! It can't be that satan is scared of little old me! So I have to think that it is not satan but that God knew that I was going in the wrong direction so He sent someone to point out my errors...but I just can't see where the things that are being called error are error. Is it that I am too stubborn and unrepentant? My flesh hasn't died enough...and as much as I try to nail it to the cross it just keeps pulling out the nails. And I have the scars but no progress. Or so it seems. I might as well be back where I was before I thought I knew God then to think that I know Him and then discover that all I knew was an experience. I just don't get it, and I am sorry for anyone that gets offended by all of this, but it is what I am going through and I dont know how else to say it. I am more confused right now that I have been in my whole life and all I know to do is whine because if I don't tell someone then I will feel the same way but I will be the only one who knows I am feeling that way....and that would be kindof like wearing a mask, wouldn't it? I don't want to do that...have too many people walking around in masks allready. Trouble is I can't figure out where the mask ends and the real thing begins...


-Michelle

The best laid plans are in my other pants. -- Newsboys
Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19620 09/22/00 12:03 AM
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Okay, I am so silly. Of all the crazy things that would help me understand what I'm doing here, it took a Chris Rice song. Hahaha. He is silly. I don't know if anyone has ever heard his new song "The Color Nine" (it reminds me of Christian...I miss him. Where is he?) ANYWAY. It talks about people who hear "the call" and the voice of God, and how he doesn't hear it, but somehow he just knows that God is there, and about how if he is still living in faith, the God must have him there for a reason, and the chorus of the song talks about how his his sense are all working fine, but his faculties aren't getting Him any closer to God, and he says "Sometimes finding you is like trying to smell the color 9." And at the end of the song he says that again, and he says "I know 9 is not a color and even if it were you can't smell a color, and that's my point exactly."

I think I get it! I am trying too hard to find God with the wrong senses. I'm trying see Him when He wants me to listen for Him. I'm trying to reach out and touch Him when He wants me to be still and know that He is there. I am trying to figure things out when He wants me not to lean on my own understanding. Trying to make things into big issues that are irrelevant. I am trying to smell the color 9 instead of just having faith that He will work all things out for the good of those who love Him. And I am relying too much on the way I feel instead of just praising Him despite the way I feel, because the way I feel isn't an accurate depiction of the way I am. And that is why I get so confused. If satan can use the way I feel to keep me from praying and praising God, then he won...
can't let him do that, can i?

Thanks Allen...
and Bill,
and Laura.

God, I'm sorry I'm so dumb... [Linked Image]
please forgive my unbelief???!


-Michelle

The best laid plans are in my other pants. -- Newsboys
Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19621 09/22/00 12:53 AM
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See!!! You had the answer in your heart all along but you just wanted it in your mind. blback

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Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19622 09/22/00 03:24 AM
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Yes, those were the words that failed me...

faith, hope, and love

------------------
Allen


- Allen [Linked Image]
- I don't need things, I need people - mb © 2002
Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19623 09/22/00 04:51 AM
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So here I am impatient and losing heart. And powerless to stop it. ????

Forever, I know what you are feeling. Let me guess... tired all the time, confused, crying just because you are awake, sleeping so you won't cry. I have just made it through that test...and I found out recently why!

"Impatient and losing heart..."--yea maybe, but "powerless"--Bull!! I hope you really don't believe that.

Forever, sometimes life sucks and then sometimes it sucks even more. But, through the whole thing you have the power to do anything.

Why is it that we as Christians always have to over-analyze everything.
We stub our toe... demons are attacking,
We question why we feel a certain way... we have no faith,
We are having a bad day... God is testing us

Why do we put restraints on HIS grace that HE doesn't put there HIMSELF. You said "I think I get it! I am trying too hard to find God with the wrong senses."--

I think you are trying to hard to find HIM period!! or at least I was.

I went to the ASTROS game the other day and I went to park my truck while my family and Allen went ahead. When I got to one of lthe many doors at Enron Field, they weren't there. I thought, "they must be on the other side"..so I walked around to the left side.
They weren't there. Well they must be at the other door. So I walked again.
Got there...no family and no Allen.
They must have walked to the right. So I walked back to the right.

Over and over I walked around the stadium wondering how I could keep missing them.

Then it hit me to just relax and let them come to me. All the sudden, my cell phone rang and it was my cousin asking where I was. Door 141. He answered "your dad is on his way."

I think we try to out-think GOD and "over-righteous" ourselves for everyone else instead of relaxing and enjoying the gift HE'S given us. So we're not perfect--for who? So things confuse us--duh... we are human. WE are going to feel happy, worthwhile, needed by people, energetic and like life is going great-- and GOD is GOD!
But, we will also feel sad, meaningless, small, unappriciated, and like the world is out to get us--guess what GOD is still GOD!!

I guess what I am saying is Let God help you find YOU... WE need to concentrate more on loving each other, trusting in HIM, and not knowing all the answers all the time.

Put on a comfortable shirt, let your hair down, take off your shoes and enjoy life!!

Call me and we will frolick in nothingness and dance until the stars fall. You see WE DO HAVE THE POWER--IN HIM WE CAN DO ANYTHING

and it's that knowledge that satan tries to bury beneath, confussion, calamity, and conformity.

Let HIM take over!!

Luv ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

innerdawg [Linked Image]

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[This message has been edited by whit-Dawg (edited 09-21-2000).]

Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19624 09/22/00 06:19 PM
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Yup...well, sorta. Can't sleep much cause of Celeste so I mostly just cry...I am tired all the time, tho. No matter how much sleep I get. And I don't feel like doing anything.

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Okay...lemmie rephrase that.
Feeling powerless. I really do. Knowing that I'm not, but feeling like I am nonetheless.

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well, I wouldn't say I go that far... But I do feel like I have no faith...

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thaswhatimtalkinabout. Just trying to hard...or am I not trying hard enough? I just don't know...


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Hmm, nice thought...

see,
Lemmie explain what was bothering me so bad, and maybe you will understand why I was so confused. I was talking to these people--I know they meant well--who heard that my mother was a preacher. They said that by going to her church I was sinning and causing others to stumble by condoning a woman being behind the pulpit. They told me that I was teaching the kids in sunday school that it was okay for a woman to be head of the church (needless to say that they think it is wrong.) and they of course used the verse about having a millstone tied around your neck blahblahblah... They are also very against the charismatic movement, saying that it is all of satan, and that people who attend a church in which people speak in tongues are condoning works of satan, and that modern day healings are the works of satan. And that contemporary worship is of satan and that even though we think we are worshiping God, we are actually being used by satan to bring others into the "cult". Of course they didnt say it like that exactly. It sounded much less far-fetched than that, but in effect they were saying that I didn't know God even though I thought I did. They were very convincing. I was told that my main priority should be to get out of the church that I was in. I told them how impossible that was since if I leave my mom's church I would have to leave home. And I told them that since I was leaving my job soon that would be impossible. I was then told that I wasn't putting God first in my life and that I was letting circumstances control me. All the while they told me this I just didn't understand how one could worship satan thinking that they were worshiping God, and to this they said, Look at all of the cults who don't believe that the only way to God is Jesus. And I said BUT I DO! And they still insist that the charismatic movement serves satan. They told me that I should straighten up and repent for condoning the sins of my mother and that I should just leave. They used the scripture in the Bible about leaving your family and not looking back. They had scripture for everything. An interpretation for every scripture. And another scripture for every arguement or question that I had. It made sense but it didn't make sense. I won't post the 6 pages of scriptures and commentaries and expositions that I have on the charismatic movement or women preachers unless someone wants to read them so that maybe they can explain them to me, but suffice to say that they managed to make me doubt everything that I know. And as I told them of my confusion, they said that I was confused because of all the lies that I have believed all of my life and that the "truth" will set me free. I am still confused about many things, and I don't think the confusion is going to go away for a long time. I was told that I am just fighting the truth. [Linked Image] I don't know what to believe anymore...


-Michelle

The best laid plans are in my other pants. -- Newsboys
Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19625 09/22/00 07:57 PM
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Please ask them this, since I have always wondered this myself.

If they think that healings, the gifts of the Spirit, miracles, etc. were only for the people of Biblical times, the people who actually walked with Jesus, then does that mean that Jesus only died for the people who lived at that time? For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son to save the people who were alive at that time? At what exact point in time did Jesus' death stop working? At what exact point in time did His Spirit leave us? At what exact point in time did God stop being God? Can He not do anything anymore? Why let the world go on if He is powerless? Why send His Holy Spirit at all if He planned to take it back after the disciples died? There was much more work to be done after their death than before... Does Jesus have to die again to cover those who have lived since then? Has His Holy Spirit been on vacation for the last 2000 years? Even if a thousand years is like a day in heaven, the weekend is over, it's time to get back to work... How can we limit what God is able to do? He wouldn't be God then!!!

I GUARANTEE I have more questions than they have answers for these matters... 60 pages of Bible scripture in 7pt font ain't enuf.... it won't be just a millstone around their neck, try a whole mill...

Religious people make me sick...

------------------
Allen


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Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19626 09/23/00 12:02 AM
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Okay, I can answer some of those according to the way they believe because I asked some of the same questions allready. But I don't plan to ask anything new. I am through talking to them for now anyway. The more I talk to them the more confused I get and the more I start to doubt myself.

Okay, about the whole healing, and tongues:
It still happens today, but the problem with the charismatic movement is that none of it is done according to the Bible. Again, these are not MY words, so please nobody shoot the messenger. They say that tongues are not this incoherant babble that goes on today like "tonto shudda drove a honda" (again, their exact words not mine...) And that the gift of tongues of the Bible is that of someone being able to speak a known language that they never learned (hence the whole Acts Ch.2 thing.) and that in Corinthains, the church was actually being rebuked for speaking in an unknown tongue and was commanded to pray in the spirit with understanding (a known language) instead of an unknown language (the tongues that are used today.) And so the tongues that are going on today are false and for self serving reasons, and not the edification of the church, thus they are not of God.
Healing, they say, is done the wrong way, as (just the example they gave) Benny Hinn calls people to him and picks and chooses who gets healed and who does not get healed. They say that in the Bible, people came to Jesus asking for healing instead of Him going to people asking if they wanted to be healed. And that everyone who went to Jesus and asked for a healing was healed, and so people like Benny Hinn are fakes because they don't do it just like it was done in the bible, and they give people the false notions that everyone who asks will be healed if only they have enough faith, and that if they don't get healed it is because they don't have enough faith. And therefore the healings that do occur are works of satan trying to lure more people into the "name-it-claim-it/word faith cult" (as they call it.)
They say that any church in which someone is "slain in the spirit" is a false church because it didn't happen in the bible. No one can find an example of it.
Crying is emotionalism.
And if a church plays a song for more than 10 minutes that it falls under the category of putting people in a trance-like state so that they think that they have had a "God experience" when actually they are just hyped up.
They do not claim that God removed His spirit from us, but that people today claim to be hearing from the spirit when they are really hearing from satan, and they listen to him. Like someone told the story (it is true) of a preacher who, through the whole service, felt like the spirit was telling him to bark like a dog. And he didn't, but again and again, he felt like the Lord was telling him to do this. And so finally he did, and a drunk man came to the front at the altar call and gave his life to God because he had been "testing" God. He had told a friend earlier that day that if the preacher barked like a dog then he would give his life to God. And someone said "you would think that is of God, right? I mean, come on. The man got saved, right? And is still saved to this day, right? So how could it not be?....well then replace barking with urinating on the podium and see how ridiculous that really is. If you can say that God would tell you to do something differently than it was done in the Bible then you can pretty much get away with all kinds of nonsense. To cause someone to 'fall out' or be 'slain in the spirit' is not biblical, but if you say that the spirit told you to do it, (and it does not classify it as a sin in the bible) then I could spit in your face and say that the spirit told me to do it...after all, that is not listed as a sin in the bible either. I could tell you that I did it in love..."
So in other words, the spirit still speaks to man, and God still works, but if it didn't happen in the Bible, it shouldn't happen today. They use the verse about "there is nothing new under the sun," "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever," and "cling to the gospel which we taught you" and "do not be carried aside with every wind of doctrine,"....
And they say that if you are in a church that participates in any of these activities, then you are participating in works of satan, and God will not hear the prayers of the wicked. I asked "what if my heart is right with God, will He not hear my prayers no matter where I am?" To which was replied, "it would be just like you going to an orgy, standing there while it took place, condoning it, and then praying for a move of God..."

I could post more, but I think you have surely heard enough for right now. I know that I must be really stupid since all of this stuff bothered me. I tried to just argue with it, tried to ignore it, and it just wouldn't go away. And now I don't know what to believe. I must be a complete idiot, because no one else is confused by all of this. One of the people that was telling me all this said that he could relate to how I was feeling because he himself came out of the charismatic movement, and that he believed the same "lies and false doctrines" but that he saw the error and was confused for a while and then he repented for his sins and is now trying to "rescue others from this horrible cult".....


??? I mean there is just all kinds of stuff that I don't understand, and it's not stuff that I feel like can wait till later, cause it's like I can't be at peace until I know for sure, but I don't know how to find out. If what they say is true...I don't think it is...But why? I don't understand....I can't handle this. I am too dumb for all this information.


-Michelle

The best laid plans are in my other pants. -- Newsboys
Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19627 09/23/00 12:20 AM
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Forever, let them go!! Their ignorance, or ours, is between them and God and Us and God.

Originally posted: "I just didn't understand how one could worship satan thinking that they were worshiping God,"

Jesus had an answer for this...simply put "would satan stand against himself?"

Follow your heart, trust in Him, and don't let them bring confusion in your life.

innerdawg

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Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19628 09/23/00 02:24 AM
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I'm trying!!!!!

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little too late for that, isn't it?

It's not that I care at all whether or not they think I'm right or wrong....I could care less what anyone thinks of me anymore.
I care what God thinks. And He must be looking at me and shaking His head saying, "I know I gave the girl a brain that works..." So why don't I get it??? [Linked Image]
goodnight yall.
please just keep me in your prayers for real, cause I can't even manage to pray for me...


-Michelle

The best laid plans are in my other pants. -- Newsboys
Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19629 09/24/00 01:31 AM
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you are... and little celeste, for patience with you as well...[Linked Image]


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Allen


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Re: two steps forward, a mile backwards??? #19630 09/25/00 03:25 AM
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Forever,

When you listen to someone you have to have an open ear but, you also need to evaluate what they say to what you believe. If you dont know you have to find the truth yourself in the Word of God. The word says "Seek and you show find." God is faithful to show you what you need. Maybe one year ago I had to come to the point in my life that I believe my Pastor but there has to come a point that I had to search the scripture for myself. Not that I did not believe but so I could understand. The word from someone else is good but not fully understood until read individually. Yes, we all have questions and after you have gone to so many others and have not found the answers then you must turn to God and wait for the answers. May take time!!!! A long time!!!! Then you just hang in until he tells you what you need to know!!! Dont give up!! I have so many questions but, I will never give up!!!!

My questions are "Why are people never honest?" "Why do people say they love you and not really mean it?" "Why do friends treat you the why they do?" "Why are people afraid to speak their heart?" "Why do we walk in so much turmol?" "Why do people in other parts of the world die of starvation?" "Why do people not care about other nations and how they dont know Christ?" Why do we fight here in America about stupid things?" Well, really this list could go on forever but, know matter what I think I know one by one these will be answered!!! I have to trust God over man!!! I have to know my life is in his hands and he will show me the way even though I dont know!!!!!

Forever, I will continue to pray for you as you please pray for me----I need it now more than ever!!!!

Luv U,
Purity

------------------
Love,Joy,Peace,
and Holiness Always


Love,Joy,Peace,
and Holiness Always

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