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Righteousness #15217 08/25/05 06:34 PM
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The scriptures say that God hears the prayers of the righteous. What makes a man righteous/unrighteous?


-Michelle

The best laid plans are in my other pants. -- Newsboys
Re: Righteousness #15218 08/25/05 06:51 PM
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Andy Offline
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Without going into a lot of detail (at work) what pops into my mind is this:

Psalm 15
A psalm of David.

1 LORD, who may dwell in your sanctuary?
Who may live on your holy hill?
2 He whose walk is blameless
and who does what is righteous,
who speaks the truth from his heart

3 and has no slander on his tongue,
who does his neighbor no wrong
and casts no slur on his fellowman,

4 who despises a vile man
but honors those who fear the LORD,
who keeps his oath
even when it hurts,

5 who lends his money without usury
and does not accept a bribe against the innocent.
He who does these things
will never be shaken.


Who are you? What do you want? Why are you here? Where are you Going?
Re: Righteousness #15219 08/25/05 07:30 PM
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So in order to be righteous, you have to be darn near perfect?


-Michelle

The best laid plans are in my other pants. -- Newsboys
Re: Righteousness #15220 08/25/05 08:55 PM
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Joel33 Offline
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No, you just have to be Mormon -


And I am so totally just joking, I hope no one is offended.


I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the otheró This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him! -- Joseph Smith History 1:17
Re: Righteousness #15221 08/25/05 08:56 PM
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NABSTER Offline
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IT IS REALLY ABOUT BEING REOENTANT AND COMING CLEAN BEFORE GOD. NO ANGER RESENTMENT, UNFORGIVENESS IN YOUR LIFE. WHEN YOU ARE COVERED BY THE BLOOD AND IN A REPENTANT STATE GOD SEES US THROUGH THE BLOOD...HENCE HE SEES US AS RIGHTEOUS. GLORIOUS AINT IT?


Psalm 91
Re: Righteousness #15222 08/26/05 01:26 PM
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or perhaps trying or walking toward that goal of being darn near perfect.

And the attitude of your heart. Following in Nab's footsteps...repentent and coming clean...

a genuine change of heart and a new direction in your life. Sure...overcoming addictions does not happen overnight, just as having that righteous walk does not come overnight.

But...by bringing every thought captive and under the obedience of Christ we do draw closer to that perfect relationship.


Who are you? What do you want? Why are you here? Where are you Going?
Re: Righteousness #15223 08/26/05 01:38 PM
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anangelsarms Offline
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well, if you go on the pretenses that God hears lots and lots of prayers, then riteousness in God's eyes must be different than that we formulate it to be. Think maybe He meastures by a diferent stick ?


-hanging in there- Jenna Clark
Re: Righteousness #15224 08/26/05 03:31 PM
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Yes, a measuring stick shaped exactly like His son coincidentaly.

Of course if you look at Isaiah you will read that our righteousness is as filthy rags. [censored] our righteousness must come through some other source.

We are made righteous through an indwelling of the Holy Spirit whom can only be given to one who believes and repents. Righteousness is a state that you can achieve once saved, through prayer and repentance.


"I'm part of the fellowship of the unashamed. I have the Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast. I have stepped over the line. The decision has been made - I'm a disciple of HIS.
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Re: Righteousness #15225 08/26/05 03:42 PM
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God will not hear All your prayers. The Bible is plain on that. Just as if you have unforgiveness in your heart God will not forgive you. Nor hear your prayers. I personally beleive this is why many of our prayers seem unaswered by God...we are not clean before when we petition Him. We today,seem to expect grace and mercy like an endless resorvoir ready to just be poured out on us...and while it is just that our attitude and our humility has to be sincere, almost as if we know we dont deserve it(we dont) and as though we are lucky just to get a small bit of it.
The word says we can boldly approach the throne to obtain mercy and grace, but it also says we should come humbly and with a repentant heart. One is an attitude of "ican go to my father for anything" and the other is "he is so awesome and i respect him so much that i will do everything i can to show that respect by coming to him having done all i can do to be clean and obey his words."
I am not saying it very, but you know what i mean?


Psalm 91
Re: Righteousness #15226 08/26/05 04:17 PM
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Joel33 Offline
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Maybe this has been said, but I think if you look to the example of his Son, and emulate his attitude in prayer - you've got a better chance of praying things that are in harmony with God's will and thereby offering the prayer of the righteous.

Here's some stuff from the LDS Bible Dictionary on prayer, I've scrubbed it for LDS scripture references so it should be entirely Biblical. I don't think anyone will find anything controversial in there.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Before the first generation of mankind had passed away, men began to call upon the name of the Lord (Gen. 4: 26). Prayers, whether with (Gen. 12: 8; Gen. 13: 4) or without (Gen. 20: 7; Gen. 32: 9-11) sacrifice, were constantly offered by the patriarchs to God. The efficacy of the intercession of good men was recognized (Gen. 18: 23; Gen. 20: 7; Ex. 32: 11).

Prayer is nowhere specifically commanded as a duty in the law, and prayers were not prescribed at the sacrifices except on two occasions: a confession of sin on the Day of Atonement (Lev. 16: 21), and a thanksgiving when offering the firstfruits and tithes (Deut. 26: 3, 13). It is, however, certain from the nature of things, and from the custom in later times, that prayer accompanied sacrifice.

Even in the times of the Judges, the children of Israel did not forget to cry unto the Lord, and a model of prayer is furnished by Hannah (1 Sam. 2: 1). Samuel was recognized by his nation to be characteristically a man of prayer (1 Sam. 7: 5, 8; 1 Sam. 12: 19, 23; Ps. 99: 6). Davidís Psalms, and the Psalms generally, breathe the highest spirit of prayer. The nation that possessed them must have been rich in teachers and examples of prayer. Remarkable prayers were prayed by Solomon (1 Kgs. 8); Hezekiah (2 Kgs. 19: 14, etc.; Isa. 38: 9, etc.); Ezra (Ezra 9: 5); the Levites (Neh. 9: 5, etc.); and Daniel (Dan. 9: 3, etc.). ďMaking many prayersĒ was a part of the corrupt religion of Israel under the later kings (Isa. 1: 15), and a marked feature of the religion of the Pharisees (Matt. 6: 5; Matt. 23: 14).

It was the custom to pray three times a day. So David (Ps. 55: 17), Daniel (Dan. 6: 10), and the later Jews. Prayer was said before meat (1 Sam. 9: 13; Matt. 15: 36; Acts 27: 35).

The attitude of prayer ordinarily was standing (1 Sam. 1: 26; Neh. 9: 2, 4; Matt. 6: 5; Luke 18: 11, 13); also kneeling (1 Kgs. 8: 54; Dan. 6: 10; Ezra 9: 5); or prostrate (Josh. 7: 6; Neh. 8: 6). The hands were spread forth to heaven (1 Kgs. 8: 22; Ezra 9: 5; Isa. 1: 15; Ps. 141: 2). Smiting on the breast and rending of the garments signified special sorrow (Luke 18: 13; Ezra 9: 5). The Lordís attitude in prayer is recorded only once. In the Garden of Gethsemane he knelt (Luke 22: 41), fell on his face (Matt. 26: 39), fell on the ground (Mark 14: 35). It is noteworthy that Stephen (Acts 7: 60), Peter (Acts 9: 40), Paul (Acts 20: 36; Acts 21: 5), and the Christians generally (Acts 21: 5) knelt to pray.

Prayers were said at the Sanctuary (1 Sam. 1: 9-12; Ps. 42: 2, 4; 1 Kgs. 8), or looking toward the Sanctuary (1 Kgs. 8: 44, 48; Dan. 6: 10; Ps. 5: 7); on the housetop or in an upper chamber (Acts 10: 9; Dan. 6: 10). The Pharisees prayed publicly in the synagogues and at the corners of the streets (Matt. 6: 5). The Lord prayed upon the tops of mountains (Matt. 14: 23; Luke 9: 28), or in solitary places (Mark 1: 35).

As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are his children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part (Matt. 7: 7-11). Many of the so-called difficulties about prayer arise from forgetting this relationship. Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant, but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work, and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings.

There are many passages in the N.T. that teach the duty of prayer (e.g., Matt. 7: 7; Matt. 26: 41; Luke 18: 1; Luke 21: 36; Eph. 6: 18; Philip. 4: 6; Col. 4: 2; 1 Thes. 5: 17, 25; 1 Tim. 2: 1, 8). Christians are taught to pray in Christís name (John 14: 13-14; John 15: 7, 16; John 16: 23-24). We pray in Christís name when our mind is the mind of Christ, and our wishes the wishes of Christ - when his words abide in us (John 15: 7). We then ask for things it is possible for God to grant. Many prayers remain unanswered because they are not in Christís name at all; they in no way represent his mind, but spring out of the selfishness of manís heart.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">(emphasis mine)


I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the otheró This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him! -- Joseph Smith History 1:17
Re: Righteousness #15227 08/26/05 08:27 PM
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GOOD STUFF..


Psalm 91
Re: Righteousness #15228 08/26/05 08:37 PM
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yall might argue with this, and if you do, you really are just kinda wasting space, cause it wont make uch difference, but i believe ....

prayer is you and God, period. you and your relationship with God, how you do it, when you do it, how "riteous" the prayer is bologna ... i think God is always listening, and HOW the prayer gets answered is HIS way not yours, so you might never recognize it but i think all prayer goes answered, in some way. That is MY God ... He listens and He loves, just not always the way I want him to.


-hanging in there- Jenna Clark
Re: Righteousness #15229 08/26/05 09:03 PM
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Joel33 Offline
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I don't disagree.

I think the main points from what I posted above aren't so much the historical but rather this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant, but that are made conditional on our asking for them...

...We then ask for things it is possible for God to grant. Many prayers remain unanswered because they are not in Christís name at all; they in no way represent his mind, but spring out of the selfishness of manís heart.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For instance when I was a kid, I once (often) prayed that I could have a motorcycle. That prayer was sprung out of selfishness - childish selfishness. As such, it really hasn't been answered to this day. I misunderstood who I was praying to at the time and began to treat it more as though i was talking to Santa Claus rather than God.


I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the otheró This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him! -- Joseph Smith History 1:17
Re: Righteousness #15230 08/26/05 09:50 PM
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if you are praying to the GOd of the BIble...you should abide by the GOD of the BIble and understand His wisdom. Talk to God and commune with Him, yes...but praying and petitioning Him for others or yourself, you really should read up on how to pray so God will respond to you. You dont just approach the throne and tell God what itis you need...how arrogant, no? A3 you forget that God of the BIble, while gracious and always loving, has rules and asks us to abide by them...WHy wouyld Jesus say to the disciples here is how to pray...if they could just go to the father anyway they wanted? food for thought....
Sometimes my repsonses are because I truly want someone to realize some truths i have gleaned from mentors or in study. I wish someone would hve told me many things many eons ago...i would have been a better man and a better influence on those around me as well. I just feel like when people start talking about "their" God, that they create one that just fits into thier reality....and it isnt so, if "your" God is the same one in the Bible. Our lack of knowledge or study doesnt change God.his principles remain, his Word remains and it is for us to learn by.In so doing we begin to know Him deeper and deeper...and that is the main thing. a relationship with our maker and His son Jesus, and walking in Spirit and in truth.
nabster


Psalm 91
Re: Righteousness #15231 08/27/05 03:12 AM
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i agree with you Nab, really i do, i think i didnt say enough about how i pray to my God. the reason why i use the term "my God" is because i truly feel like i am close to Him, not as close as i should be, but close enough to call him "one of mine" like i would a friend or mentor.

Of course there are rules to any form of communication. otherwise there would be onesidedness and it wouldnt be a healthy relationship. i jsut wanted to say, i have a good (though not nearly good enuf) relationship with God, my God, our God, the one we KNOW. I never tell God what i want them wait. no way, the only time that comes close to my form of prayer is when one of my kids is sick or hurt " please let me take this from them, make them better" is my prayer somewhat, but i think each person prays differently. i like to hold my kids when i pray. or sit outside, or maybe, if it is the only time i can get quiet .. on the toliet. yup. i dont feel like i am following any rules, jsut checking in with my Lord who needs to know i think of Him in all i do and throughout the day.

My deep prayer is reserved for mass. my time at mass is deeply important to me. we have secripture (whic is what we take with us to ponder on after the service) but also the quiet blanket of prayer of other surrounding you. to me, a room full of people praying thier different ways is riteousness. "when two or more are gathered in my name, there i am as well"


-hanging in there- Jenna Clark
Re: Righteousness #15232 08/28/05 03:59 AM
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Nabster: Throughout the Bible God is showed in every emotion and every way. When people take God to mean some way, it is right because in some part of the Bible, that is how God is. If God is everything, then God is something. And something can refer to a specific thing.

Re: Righteousness #15233 08/28/05 01:25 PM
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SEM, your "if...then" statements are baffling in thier logic.God is an emotional God ..yes. But we can learn through the word what angers, pleases and causes jealousy etc. to God. He is not like a woman, who gets emotional for no reason.... tongue laugh monkey


Psalm 91
Re: Righteousness #15234 08/28/05 02:09 PM
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*AHEM* slap

I believe that God hears all prayer, but He answers based on our heart condition and His will for our lives. If He only heard the prayers of those who were in the correct standing then it would seem impossible for a non-believer to even approach Him and ask for Him to come into their lives.

I also believe that He answers all prayer. It's just that sometimes the answer is no...

...and back to what is righteousness? It's living a life that mirrors the nature of Christ. Only Jesus is righteous. We are made righteous through His sacrifice. When God looks at us all He sees is Jesus. It's not based on what we can or cannot do, it's based on what Jesus already did.

I think righteous and sanctification go hand in hand.


When I don't measure up to much in this life, I'm a treasure in the arms of Christ.
Re: Righteousness #15235 08/29/05 06:54 PM
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God does not hear ALL prayer...i wish he did.
mark 11:25
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

psalm 66:18
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear [me]:
1 peter 3:7
Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

and verse 11-12
Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
1Pe 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord [are] over the righteous, and his ears [are open] unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord [is] against them that do evil.

there are more. but this should suffice for now...
it is the position of our heart that God hears our prayers. But we have knowledge from the word of God and we must use it. if we harbor unforgiveness in our heart, it is a big deal to God...He will not forgive us our sin either.This is in the model Lord's prayer.
I believe through inaccurate politically correct teachings the devil is keeping separation from God and his people by hiding truths such as these. Effective prayer is effective for a reason...it is humble it is with a clean heart it is persistent it is intercessory and it is full of worship and full of faith.
Good discussion...any comment?


Psalm 91
Re: Righteousness #15236 08/29/05 08:31 PM
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Joel33 Offline
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Nabster,

I don't disagree with you.

However, I think it is likely that in a lot of these verses of scripture, the point is not that God will not hear you, but rather that he ignores you. I know the difference is slight, but it is distinct.

My point is that God will hear you, but it is often our own sin and unrighteousness that makes us unworthy to recieve the blessings God wants to give us. If I am entirely unworthy and unrepentant and yet I seek God's blessings, then I have to be ignored.


I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the otheró This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him! -- Joseph Smith History 1:17
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