I could have put this in an old thread from way back about some spiritual confusion I was having...but this is about the opposite end of the spectrum, so I really think I need to start with a clean slate on this one.

I came across a person (yeah, I need to stop coming across persons, eh?) who says I cannot possibly be saved because I do not speak in tongues.

He says that there are two types of tongues (I have heard that before and was inclined to agree), but that one tongue is a gift, and another is evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit. He went on to give me the scripture:

Mark 16

14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

So whenever the Bible says that whosoever believes on the name of the Lord will be saved, the evidence of that belief will be instant because of the infilling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

The more we discussed it, the more right he sounds.

So what does that mean? Do I just think I'm saved but am not really because I can't be filled with the Holy Spirit if I don't speak in tongues?

I asked him that, and this is what he had to say.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity'. Jesus said beleivers shall (not might) speak with new tongues (Mark 16:17). He said that everyone that is born of the Spirit will hear the voice of the Spirit (speaking in tongues - Acts 2:4, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:6) in John 3:8. He also said in John 4:23-24 that true worshippers MUST (of absolute necessiry) worship God in spirit (speak in tongues) and in truth. Now if you have been told different, you have been told a lie. This is not my theology, but the words of Jesus Christ himself. If you have not received the Holy Ghost yet (ie. spoken in tongues), then you need to earnestly seek the Lord until you do receive it, because it is the Spirit which quickens (gives life to) you mortal body (Romans 8:11). You will know when it happens, because this beautiful language will just pour out of your mouth as the Spirit comes within. Don't try and do it yourself (make it happen) because it won't work. Just give completely over to God (repentance), praise him from the bottom of your heart, and just let it happen.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What am I doing wrong? What else do I have to do?

He even said something about "there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" does not apply to me because I cannot possibly be in Christ Jesus if I don't speak in tongues!

He said the verse about the gift of tongues where God gives some the gift of prophesy, some the gift of tongues...and so on...applies to the gift, and not the evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit and baptism with fire.

I have really been searching, but I can't find anything to disprove what he's saying to me, and I can't lie...I find myself a little scared.

Somebody Please?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by foreverchanged:
17And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I thought "new tounges" meant new languages... Anyway, I think what he's saying is a bunch of you know what!!

Yeah, well he's sure scaring the hell out of me.

Not to be blunt but he sounds like one of those "I am better than you because..." people... Uses God to make himself look better type thing Your faith is between you and God, regardless of what anyone says, nobody can change that!

...and what if he's right? I can't find a thing in the Bible that says he's wrong...and the Bible is the ultimate authority...isn't it?

Yes it is, but there are also many ways you can interprete the bible. I'm wondering why he is focusing on that one issue?

Michelle...I bet you were speaking to someone from AOG right?

I attended an AOG when I was in DE. They believe that you must speak in tongues in order to be saved...but think about that...if we have to do something, it then becomes a works Gospel. It then means that Christ's death was not enough to pay for our sins. Do you believe that? I know that you don't.

There are also people out there that will tell you that illness is due to one's lack of faith. It's a load of bull.

There is alot of tosh out there Michelle. Jesus said that the only way to the Father was thru the Son, and whoever believed in Him would have eternal life. End of story. Don't let people scare you.

Tongues is a gift. Some have it some do not. It's like any other gift. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the indwelling you received. It does not have to be evidenced by any utterances. It has to evidenced by your fruit.

embie, I'm not sure what AOG is...

Yes, the bible says that you must believe on Christ.

And then it follows up by saying these signs will follow those who believe...

I don't do any of that stuff.

he defined works as "good deeds" he said tongues isn't a work. It's evidence of the fact that you believe. Because if you really come to God with a repentant heart, then you have to be baptized by someone who speaks in tongues and you will be filled with the Holy Spirit and until you do, you're not saved...

I can't explain it like he did, but he used all this scripture...and when I looked it up in context, it all said exactly what he said it said.

AOG is Assembly of God.

I was prayed on and over and to the left and to the right, and I never once spoke in tongues. And I never once doubted my salvation.

One of the bibles that I study from has this note to the scriptures that you posted:

Mark 16:17,18

These signs were promised to the apostolic community, not all believers in all ages.

Matt 10:1 refers to the Apostolic community.

And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease.

It also goes on to say that all the apostles experienced some of these signs as it is recorded in Scripture but were not recorded at all afterward.

So if I were to believe the fellow that spoke with you, that must mean that no one since the apostles have been saved.

What's wrong with me? Why am I questioning my salvation? I am really upset right now...perhaps I can't think straight.

I'm not trying to argue with you at all...but there have been things like that going on since the apostles.

Laying on of hands...did that die with them? I don't know about the snakes and all...but this guy was talking about some incident with wasps where he was stung and prayed and nothing happened to him...even though he's allergic to wasps.

I don't know why I get so upset...he just sounds like he knows what he is talking about. At first I thought "what a crock!" and the more he talked, the more scriptures he had to back up what he said...and the more I got to thinking and I really don't have any fruits...

None that I can see...so what do I have???

I know you're not trying to argue and I also know that you are upset. So don't fret over that...but just know that there are many people out there that can take scripture and turn it around to try to control people. Jesus would not put such stipulations for salvation on people and then watch to see if we can achieve them. He died so that we could have life.

I know that Steve will have waay more stuff that he can tell you and he will be around soon. Just don't worry about your salvation...it does not depend on whether or not you can speak in tongues. I'm praying that you will find comfortin that.

why couldn't God have made the Bible a little more cut and dry where it left no room for stuff like that??? why does it have to be so confusing???!

I'm calmed down now...and I feel a little silly. I don't see why I got all upset. I've come across that belief before...I don't know why it freaked me out so bad this time...

Thanks aleina and embie...

Hi Michelle I am not the "end all" of authority on tongues but I do have what I feel is a scriptural postion.

you said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> "they will speak with new tongues;"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Notice in that verse it says "NEW TONGUES" not "IN TONGUES" Right there it totally changes the meanings of the two verses that that fella was trying to compare. Yes when we are saved we do speak with a new tongue I for one do not swear like a sailor, sure I still slip, but my speech is decidedly different than it was before I came back to Christ. The other issue is that fella needs to lay hold of some rattlesnakes and start drinking draino as well for him to be saved. Plus He should be holding healing services so that he can comply with the laying on of hands, you probably will notice that there is no hospital in his town (sorry for the sarcasm) and that he has purged the community of any demonic influence. He has been mislead and has been taaught that you can put constraints and conditions on salvation, it doesn't work like that. (IE Thief on the cross) You (and I mean anyone not you personally) can't take part of one verse literally and then ignore the rest of it like it was never written, which is what that fella's belief system does. Yes these things can happen to believers as a group, and should, but nowhere does this verse superceed how God distributes gifts, if we were to allow his interpretation then the bible would contradict itself and that is just not so.

I hope this has helped a little
God bless ya!
Steve

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">why couldn't God have made the Bible a little more cut and dry where it left no room for stuff like that??? why does it have to be so confusing???!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">*grins* .... cuz then we wouldn't need to pray about it and talk to our brothers and sisters about it......

Thanks Steve...that does help. He was just really good...He almost had me convinced for a split milisecond....It was scary.

I don't know why, tho...

Michelle,
I agree with SLattier... define "in tongues or new tongues or tongues" for that matter. I do believe that the night of Pentecost the desciples were filled with the Holy Spirit and that night the Holy Spirit decided (not them) to move in a way that would get the attention of those who were there that night.

I also believe that if the Holy Spirit ever feels so inclined as to use you in the same way He will. But to say that one is saved or not by "if they speak in tongues" seems to be limiting God's way of operating through us and I would love to debate that with whoever you were talking to.

Christ tells us that the wise (those who think they know based on their religion) will be confounded. He also talks in pictures to make us think. Not to tell us to go grab snakes, or to drink drano, or to mumble some sylables but to relate to the message that He and He alone is the ONE TRUE GOD.

I bet there is a picture Christ is trying to convey... but I have to research some more. I'll get back to you.

But in the mean time don't be confussed or scared because in the account of the Great Commission by Matthew the very last thing Christ tells them is " And surely I am with you always (not if you speak in tongues or if you dress a certain way etc...), --ALWAYS--to the very end of the age (Matt 28:20).

luv ya

innerdawg

Romans 10:9-11

9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

We at times try to make something simple a difficult thing... as if doing extra stuff will get us "more saved" . As Jason and the others have stated... we need to concentrate more on the Great Commission and less on the great debates.

AOG, doesn't teach that you must speak in tongues to be considered "saved", it must have been another denomination - I do know some that preach that. Taken from the AOG's beliefs:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
The Baptism in the Holy Ghost
All believers are entitled to and should ardently expect and earnestly seek the promise of the Father, the baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire, according to the command of our Lord Jesus Christ. This was the normal experience of all in the early Christian Church. With it comes the enduement of power for life and service, the bestowment of the gifts and their uses in the work of the ministry.

Luke 24:49
Acts 1:4
Acts 1:8
1 Corinthians 12:1-31
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is pretty clear that they do not believe it is a "requirement" for being Christian, but something we should earnestly seek after...

Well, I'm really glad to hear/see that Allen cos the little church that I attended preached that on more than one occasion.

I hope you didn't take me the wrong way, I wasn't trying to put anyone's affiliation down, it's just something that I experienced. When Michelle posted how confident this man was, I just connected it to something that I weathered.

Apologies if I offended anyone.

When all is said and down...tongues isn't a requirement for Salvation. (praising God for that one )