Quick question: Can anyone give me some scriptures that outline the differences between the soul and the spirit?

I know that they are different, because in Hebrews 4:12 it says: For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.


So...can anyone give me something to chew on?

( I am looking for scriptures and might have to get back with you)

We are made in the image of God. He is a "three part" God being Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We are like Him in that we are soul, spirit and flesh. THe soul is the part of us that is eternal, it cannot die. Hence one desire for heaven not hell, forever is a long time! The spirit is the part of us that motivates us it is also the place that we communicate with God. Since we exist in a fleshly state and God trancends that we must have an ability to communicate with Him.

I will have to get back to you. I have found 125 scriptures that mention "soul" so this might take a while. Just as a quick note, most of them are talking about dedicating ones "heart and soul" to God.

(Back in a while)
Steve

Wooohoo!!! That is taking you a while, Steve! You can take a break now...*lol*

Okay, one question to add to your search (and anyone else who wants to help me out here...):

Is each person born with a spirit?


--------------
Michelle

(making my own signature since Allen BROKE the signature feature. )

Hey thanks! You know me I would never stop to do my work or go home to my wife, sleep or any of that!!

Here goes

Soul:

• Deuteronmy 4:29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.
• Job 33:18 to preserve his soul from the pit,* his life from perishing by the sword.*
• PS 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple
• PS 31:9 Be merciful to me, O LORD, for I am in distress; my eyes grow weak with sorrow, my soul and my body with grief.
• PS 42:2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. When can I go and meet with God?
• PS 62:1 My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him.
• PR 18:7 A fool's mouth is his undoing, and his lips are a snare to his soul.
• EZE 18:3 "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. [4] For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son--both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.
• Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

There are just some of the soul scriptures. As you can see we humans take on some "soul" characteristics. Your soul is the part of you that matters. You might be, on this earth skinny, fat, paralized, handsome, scarred it does not matter. The condition of the soul does not have to be effected by the fleshly circumstances!

Spirit:

• Numbers 14:24 But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it.
• Deuteronomy 2:30 But Sihon king of Heshbon refused to let us pass through. For the LORD your God had made his spirit stubborn and his heart obstinate in order to give him into your hands, as he has now done.
• 1SA 18:1 After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself.
• 2KI 2:9 When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, "Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?" "Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit," Elisha replied.
• JOB 17:1 My spirit is broken, my days are cut short, the grave awaits me.
• PS 31:5 Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth.
• PS 32:2 Blessed is the man whose sin the LORD does not count against him and in whose spirit is no deceit.
• PR 15:4 The tongue that brings healing is a tree of life, but a deceitful tongue crushes the spirit.
• PR 18:14 A man's spirit sustains him in sickness, but a crushed spirit who can bear?
• PR 20:27 The lamp of the LORD searches the spirit of a man*; it searches out his inmost being.
• MAL 2:15 Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring.* So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.
• 1TH 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. [24] The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

We are really motivated by our spirit and to answer your question, yes we do have one at birth. It is either developed or squashed by our parents, there is much power, over our spirit, in what we speak! It truly is "where the rubber meets the road" as far as your Christian walk is concerned. It is where you will battle in prayer for control over your flesh. When your spirit submits to God then your flesh will follow.

I will stop here and let you reply and or ask questions.

God bless ya
Steve

I have a whole lot to say, but I'm not feeling well enough to ask all of my questions right now, but I just wanna ask one more short question for you to answer...rather than a question, it's more of an interpretation of a passage of scripture:

In John chapter 3 when Jesus is explaining to Nicodemus about being "born again," Jesus answered:



What is the word "water" reffering to in that passage?

And also in I John 5:6-8 it says:


What is the water?

I hope I don't come across as too dumb...I know I'm coming up with all these crazy questions here lately, but this has always puzzled me, and I guess now is as good a time as any to try and figure it out...

Thanks for your help so far...anybody else who has any input feel free, please!

anybody?

Hey Forever!

I am sorry, I have had my head in the clouds all last week and I flat forgot this thread. Will you let me post tomorrow night?? Please oh please oh please????


God bless ya!
Steve

oh, i suppose so...

<img src="biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" />

I'll give Steve till tonight to come back to Earth and post..if not by then, I'll post... He's the man of God so I don't want to show him up...

ROFLOLOLOLOL Gotta love me Bud!!! <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" />

I think most people equate that to having to be baptized in water to truly be saved... maybe more accurately, it's one of the steps for salvation. There are several denominations that hold to this... others that say it is a symbolic ritual like communion - to be done with much consideration, but they do not say it is required before you are actually considered saved.

Water baptism. This topic will start fires on most of the other Christian boards! <img src="smile.gif" border="0" alt="" />

Let me start off a little differently and then I will work my way down to your question.

Water. We are made up of something like 97% water in our physical bodies. We must have water to survive. The human body can go for extreme periods without eating. It will simply feed on its fat stores to feed itself, then when those ar egone it will consume muscle tissue to keep the heart, lungs and mind alive. The body cannot go for but just a fraction of the time without any water or it will perish. Even during extended fasts people still drank water. Note Jesus' forty day fast in the desert. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">MT 4:1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. [2] After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">
See it says that Jesus was hungry but not thirsty! There is a real issue with water, in the bible!

Water is symbolic and used as a symbol many times in the bible. Doing a word search you will find that the word water is used just over 400 times. Of that, many are simply references to a particular lake or river, even so that still leaves many that are symbolic.

In no particular order:
The first is "living water" </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> JN 4:10 Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

JN 4:11 "Sir," the woman said, "you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? [12] Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds?"

JN 4:13 Jesus answered, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, [14] but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

and this one

JN 7:37 On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. [38] Whoever believes in me, as* the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." [39] By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">
Jesus himself, often reffered to the Holy Spirit as living water. Jesus even parallels our human condition when he says that we "won't thirst" when we have the Holy Spirit in our lives.

Second: There is the baptismal references </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">MT 3:11 "I baptize you with* water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

MT 3:16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.

Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> (I for one do not beleive that baptism saves it is just a public acknowledgement of a persons conversion, done in obediance to scripture.) The water that they and we are baptised is very sybolic on a couple of levels. First it is a ceremonial washing or cleansing where your past sin is physically washed away. The actual act of immersion is a symbol of Christs entry into the grave and we enter it with him. The rising up from the water is representative of Christs resurrection through the power of the Holy Spirit. We also rise from the water with new life by the power of the Holy Spirit!

(Your question about John 3 coincides with this reference to rebirth through baptism)

In regards to 1John 5 the water the blood and the Spirit. The water again refers to Baptism and the blood is God's Grace (that he would shed for us!)


I hope that this has made some sense.
God bless you
Steve

I'm looking at things in a slightly different light after last night, because we talked at Stand about the soul, spirit, and physical. So there are a few more things that are making sense to me that weren't quite clear...but I am still having trouble with the water part. Let me explain why. Just to quote you (Steve) for example:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">(I for one do not beleive that baptism saves it is just a public acknowledgement of a persons conversion, done in obediance to scripture.) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">

See, I am inclined to agree with you about that. I believe that it is an act of submission, and that every believer should be baptised. But I have always believed that you are saved before baptism...so that makes me confused about this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">(Your question about John 3 coincides with this reference to rebirth through baptism)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">

So if we look at John 3 again, it says that unless one is born of water and the Spirit, one cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Now if that reference to water really does mean baptism, then wouldn't that kindof kill the theory that you are saved without being baptised?

Which brings me to one more question (I know this is getting kinda complicated, but I really believe that there is a simple answer and I'm just not seeing it)...

Let's kinda start from the beginning. This is what I have been told: We are born three parts: body, soul, spirit. When we are saved, the Holy Spirit fills our spirit. Then it becomes a tug of war for the soul between the body (flesh) and the spirit. Acts of obedience to God strengthen our spirit such as baptism, feeding the spirit with the Word of God...

Let me stop here. Because there was a thread a while back where we were touching on the surface of this topic and I asked some questions that never got answered. So I wanna bring some of them over here because they really have alot to do with this one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">Acts 8:14-17 14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them.
15 When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">

This really confuses me. Because if the above scenario is true (when we are saved we are automatically filled with the Holy Spirit) then why did those people in Acts have to be prayed over before they recieved the Holy Spirit??? They were saved, baptized, and then they recieved the Holy Spirit...

Then again we have I John 5:6-8 where it says that Jesus came by both water and blood. (baptism and then his blood was shed for our sins??? or what???) And that the Spirit testifies because the Spirit is truth. (the Holy Spirit descended onto Jesus after his batpism) That the three things (is the order relevant here?) Spirit, water, and blood are in agreement together.

Are we covered in the blood, baptized in the water, and then recieve the Spirit? Or is that just the order that it happened in Acts...? Is it different with every Christian? Does one have to be "filled" with the Holy Spirit befor they are saved? If so, then the people in Acts were not saved until after they were baptised and prayed over. Are you saved and thus filled with the Holy Spirit and then you get baptised? Or are you saved, and then you obey God in baptism and then the Holy Spirit fills you? Help!

been baptized intothe name of the Lord Jesus.

I'm not sure yet but look up the word "into" in the Hebrew... it might give an insight.

think as a talmediem.

innerdawg

<img src="confused.gif" border="0" alt="" />

I looked up the phrase "baptised into the name of the Lord Jesus" and this is the other mention of it that I found:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">Acts 19:1-7

While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">

So they believed and were baptised and yet they weren't filled with the Holy Spirit until after they were baptised in the name of Jesus...Were they saved before they received the Holy Spirit?

*footnote: I looked it up in the NKJV (this was the NIV) and it said "in the name of the Lord Jesus", so I am assuming that "into" means the same as in...

And as if I don't have enough question allready, I gotta add one more...but please don't forget the ones I allready have. I'm really dying to understand this stuff!

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying to all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Fire?

is everybody stumped, or is it just so simple of an answer that everyone thinks i should allready know...? <img src="smile.gif" border="0" alt="" />

A: The fire of the HOLY SPIRIT...

Acts 2:1-4

1) And when the day of pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
2) And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent, rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
3) And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
4) And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.


<img src="graemlins/wavey.gif" border="0" alt="" />

so did that die back then? because I've sure never had that happen to me...what am I doing wrong?

<img src="smile.gif" border="0" alt="" /> i don't really think that the fire of the Holy Spirit died back then!!!! I've never seen the tongues of fire, but I have felt the fire of the Holy Spirit...

Again young talmedeme... THINK LIKE A HEBREW...

Jewish people back then as well as still today talk in pictures... What does the fire give them a picture of in the scriptures (Genesis through Deuteronomy)?

innerdawg

Michelle,

You ask a question that carries a very passionate debate among many Christians today, and that's the gift of tongues. I don't know what denomination you all are at Stand, or if there are many in your group. There has been so much discussion about Spiritual gifts, and the gift of tongues in particular. Some denoms believe that that gift was only temporary, as you referred to in your question. That God gave that gift to His apostles at Pentecost and it was only needed for the people of that day. Others believe that tongues is a vital part of worship for today. Still others will take a stand and go so far as to question one's salvation if they do NOT speak in tongues...

I have belonged to a Southern Baptist body as well as an AOG (Assembly of God). Baptists do not believe that tongues is a necessary gift, nor do they believe that it is for us today. AOG believe otherwise and speak it (both in prayer and as a message received from the Holy Spirit) at most every service.

For me, I have been prayed up and over and on and still have not spoken in tongues. I don't know why that is. I know that I have prayed for it. So the rest is up to God. Some may say that it's a sin issue, that I am somehow prohibiting the gift... Well, it's possible, cos I do slip, but mostly I believe that if this is a gift that God has for me, then someday I will speak. If not, no biggie. I never put Him in a box... He has more for us than we could ever imagine in our own thoughts...I don't want to put a limit on what He has for me...

/

[ 09-24-2001: Message edited by: embie ]

Jason,
HELP!!!!! Could you shed a little more light on the subject of "thinking in pictures" for this talmadene? I know what images fire brings to me, but I don't understand the jewish culture of the times in which the old testament was written...I've read the books you suggested and looked up fire in the concordance...it symbolized God's power,protection,guidance, etc... physically it was used for warmth,sacrifice,cooking,refining,destruction....what am i missing?? Also, what is the name of the man who recorded those tapes that you learned so much from? I'd like to hear the complete series. Thanks!

Embie, I'm glad that you brought up the subject of speaking in tongues. I can only respond from my own viewpoint...I, too was raised in a denom that didn't even talk about the possibility that tongues was a gift for us now....all I knew was that it seemed fanatical and a little "out there"...I feared what I didn't know...then about 4 years ago, I went to church with a friend and they spoke in tongues...she patiently explained what was happening and i relaxed. I felt a peace that that was more intense than I had ever felt before in my spirit. I still thought it very strange and it was WAYYYYY out of my comfort zone. My friend and I went out to eat a few weeks later and she patiently answered all the questions that I threw at her regarding this gift. The one thing that stuck with me is that it is a gift...one that i could choose to receive or not....that it was up to me. I didn't understand HOW though. It confused and frustrated me. I prayed, I asked questions...nothing. Then one day, I was praying and worshiping GOD....just pure worship...telling HIM over and over again how much I love HIM. All of a sudden, I felt this feeling of pure joy welling up inside me. Somewhere from deep within, I physically felt something unfamiliar rising up in me. I later likened it to the feeling that my soul was trying to jump out of my body to meet GOD. I still don't know if that makes any sense, but that is what i felt in the physical. I felt a union in flesh and spirit that I had never felt before. It was so incredibly beautiful. It was then that my mouth started making sounds that I had never felt or heard before. My tongue moved in ways that I was unaccustomed to. There was no fear, only peace and joy. That experience left me as weak as a new born babe. I tried later to reproduce those moments, to no avail on my own. Speaking in tongues came again, but only after I had spent time worshiping and praising the LORD. Blocking everything out but HIM. I still speak in tongues...it comes much easier now...I've learned to concentrate on HIM during those times..and it just flows. I still don't understand why it came when it did, but I do know that it has nothing to do with sin being in our lives...please, if it were based on the presence of sin, then no one would be able to speak in tongues. It is a gift for our spirits of communication and communion with the HOLY SPIRIT. Why some and not others? I don't know...maybe it is fear like it was for me...or maybe HE gives us all different gifts...to bring more diversity and beauty to the Body of Christ....???

<img src="smile.gif" border="0" alt="" />

posted by Delight: "...I've read the books you suggested and looked up fire in the concordance...it symbolized God's power,protection,guidance, etc... physically it was used for warmth,sacrifice,cooking,refining,destruction....what am i missing??"

I know it is hard for us (westerners--not Texans Americans <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" /> ) to change our thinking, but you are on the right track. Don't "understand it" just "see it" as they would. An example would be if I told you that throughout all that has hapened in the last few weeks we need more people like the Statue of Liberty... imediately you get a picture of what I mean. You don't have to break it down and define it... just see the picture I mean to convey.

The teacher is Dr. Ray VanDerleen. He's incredible.

innerdawg

Jason,
You are right...it is hard to just "visualize" instead of "analyze". So, I tried again and this is what I came up with...I "see" fire as...brightness, light,consuming power, intense heat,a "source" to help with everyday life ( cooking, warmth,refining)....Am I getting "warm" yet?????