#14549 - 06/23/01 02:13 PM
2 Samuel 13 ~*~A Desolate Woman?~*~
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 Disciple
Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 1152
Loc: Ignorantville, Georgia
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If ever there were a tragic victim, it would be the story of Tamar, daughter of David, when her wicked half brother, Amnon, fell in love with her, and plotted to rape her. He pretended to be ill, so that he could get Tamar to come feed him. Amnon sent everyone out of the room when Tamar came. Tamar went to feed her brother when he grabbed her and said, “Come to bed with me, my sister.” Tamar begged him not to do this. She reminded him of how bad the wicked deed was, and how both of them would be disgraced. Instead, she told him to ask her father for her hand in marriage. She was sure her father would not object. He refused to listen. Being stronger than she was, her raped her. After, he became full of hatred towards her. The bible says he hated her more than he loved her. Then he told her to get up and leave. “No,” she said. “Sending me away would be a greater wrong than what you have already done to me.” But once again he refused to listen to her. He called in a servant, who removed her, and then bolted his door shut. Tamar, filled with tears, tore her dress, which was a sign of her virginity, and put ashes on her head. The bible says she wept loudly. Her brother Absalom said to her, “Has that Amnon, your brother, been with you? Be quiet now, my sister; he is your brother. Don’t take this thing to heart.” The bible says she lived with her brother, Absalom’s house, a desolate woman. King David heard, and he was furious but did nothing. Absalom never said a word to Amnon, either good or bad. But he hated Amnon because of the disgrace he and put upon his sister, Tamar. Can you imagine? In her own home, a place where one is to feel safe, and secure, she was violated. Those who were to be her defenders were instead her victimizers. Her brother told her not to take it to heart. NOT TAKE IT TO HEART!?!?! She was just violated. And she's not supposed to take it to heart? How dare he! She was a princess. She was supposed to have a fairy tale life. But it was all destroyed. She lost her honor and her future, in a family that knew no boundaries, no love, and no respect. Verse 20 says says that she lived with her brother, a desolate woman. But what happened to her. How did she feel? How did she go on? Did she continue to live a life with God? Did she learn to forgive? Did she have someone to talk to? Did she ever get over her anger  ? Her sadness  ? Her frustration  ? Did she ever regain a sense of peace  ? Did she find comfort in the Lord? And was she ever able to say, “Though you have made me see my troubles, many and bitter, you will restore my life again; from the depths of the earth you will again bring me up. You will increase my honor and comfort me once again… My lips will shout for joy when I sing praise to you—I, whom you have redeemed.” (Psalm 71:20-21,23) [ 06-23-2001: Message edited by: Ashley ]
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"Do you not understand?" -Jesus
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#14550 - 06/24/01 04:33 AM
Re: 2 Samuel 13 ~*~A Desolate Woman?~*~
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Disciple
Registered: 09/29/99
Posts: 11360
Loc: Texas
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Great word Ashley... some would say this was the beginning of the end for King David... to let Amnon do what he did and not extract some sort of punishment for it. Absalom lost a measure of respect for his dad that day, which ultimately led to his own death as the bitterness built up in him... A good portion of Psalms was David's anguish over what he allowed to happen within his own family. "Create in me a clean heart oh Lord, and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence, and take not thy Holy Spirit from me."
I couldn't find any information about what happened to Tamar after that, there were several Tamar's said to be beautiful and bearing lots of sons (a big deal back then), but nothing on Absalom's sister, it does say he had a daughter he named Tamar...
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- Allen  - I don't need things, I need people - mb © 2002
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#14551 - 06/24/01 11:32 AM
Re: 2 Samuel 13 ~*~A Desolate Woman?~*~
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Disciple
Registered: 03/25/00
Posts: 4312
Loc: Beaumont, Texas
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Looked it up last night and found the same thing...tho I don't know if she lived in desolation for the rest of her life or not.
I remember hearing an entire sermon based on that passage not too long ago, tho I can't remember where. But when I read that story, it does make me think about society then as opposed to now. As bad as things are now, I am thankful of the fact that now if you are raped, it's not the end of the world. Back then, you were pretty much disgraced for life and you were known as unclean...
In society today (in most cases) you are considered the victim, and you are allowed to move on with your life. The main negative between the difference now days, however, is that it's only easier to move on [in society] after being violated because losing one's virginity (and even having multiple partners) is "no big deal". It's just been recent (within the past couple of decades) that rape victims were able to come out with their stories and still have some kind of dignity about them...I think that it's a win-lose type of situation because it's also been within the past couple of decades that moral society has dramatically declined.
But regardless of what society believes, there is the shame...There is a difference between guilt and shame.
Guilt is something that your conscience pricks you for when you've done something wrong, and can sometimes be the catalyst to a life change if you listen to the conviction and repent.
Shame, on the other hand, is basically someone else's guilt that you are carrying around on your shoulders. Shame is harmful because you are bearing the weight of something that you didn't have control over. And since repentance doesn't really take that violated feeling away, and you can't make that other person change their ways, you can be stuck with shame for a pretty long time...That's what your girl Tamar had to deal with along with the fact that her family didn't seem to give a flying flip that she had just been molested by one of their own.
It's much easier to deal with if you have family support. But being violated by a member of your own family...I can't imagine that, because that would be at least one less member of your family that you could turn to for help.
I remember that I felt so alone and felt like I had no one to turn to...my mother and I were on the outs because she was in her physically abusive stage and I was in my rebellious stage. Made for a bad clash of personalities...and my dad. I know he would have literally killed the guy who hurt his little girl. And I had pretty much isolated myself from all of my friends, so I just kept my mouth shut in hopes that the whole thing would go away.
It wasn't until I found a group of supportive people who had God's love dripping off of them that I was able to move on and put that part of my life behind me. It's possible that Tamar never found that, and it makes you sad for her just thinking about it, because there are still women who live and die in that shame today. Sorta makes me more aware of what is going on in the lives of the women that surround me, and gives me a drive to reach out to someone if I see that destrictive pattern that I was in...
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-Michelle
The best laid plans are in my other pants. -- Newsboys
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#14552 - 06/25/01 12:03 AM
Re: 2 Samuel 13 ~*~A Desolate Woman?~*~
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Disciple
Registered: 03/29/00
Posts: 6878
Loc: Kingwood (get it? KINGwood), T...
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Me too. I think that she never did find anything close to wholeness her whole life. I am not a Bible literalist, but it does leave you believing that her desolation was an ongoing thing, not just a passing sentiment. From the psychological aspect there is no way she could come to grips with the situation if there was no one to talk about it to. It appears as if no word was ever mentioned about it again. We can see modern evidences of that type of psychological damage every day. Just look around you at an incest or child abuse victim who has been forced to keep it all bottled up inside themselves because of who it was (or their position i.e. teacher, preacher, neighbor etc) that committed the atrocity.
Good word and good comments! God bless you Steve
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"I'm part of the fellowship of the unashamed. I have the Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast. I have stepped over the line. The decision has been made - I'm a disciple of HIS. www.Real-Men.net
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#14553 - 06/25/01 06:14 AM
Re: 2 Samuel 13 ~*~A Desolate Woman?~*~
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Queen
Disciple
Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 5620
Loc: Connecticut
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Tamar remained unmarried and childless. She knew that as a fornicator she would be scorned as an object of reproach. Even tho the deed was done against her, she would bear the stigma of one defiled.
The reason that Absalom gave no merit to the incident was because he didn't want to draw attention to his already planned plot to kill Amnon. Absalom wanted Amnon out of the line of succession, and this was the perfect way to do it...
It is so typical of the snowball effect where one sin leads to another and then another. We are often guiltless but bear the burden of another's sin.
Within this tiny chapter alone we have envy, lust, deceit, anger, rape, rejection, indifference and murder. Kinda the story-line for most crimes committed today. Isn't it ironic how sin doesn't change thru the ages...
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Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
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#14554 - 06/25/01 04:43 PM
Re: 2 Samuel 13 ~*~A Desolate Woman?~*~
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Disciple
Registered: 09/29/99
Posts: 11360
Loc: Texas
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Hey embie.. where did you find that stuff? I haven't found it yet... 
_________________________
- Allen  - I don't need things, I need people - mb © 2002
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#14555 - 06/25/01 07:58 PM
Re: 2 Samuel 13 ~*~A Desolate Woman?~*~
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Queen
Disciple
Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 5620
Loc: Connecticut
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Hey Allen, For this reference I was using The MacArthur Study Bible (NKJV). This happens to be on page 445 oh, and *ahem* is someone dragging their feet on the waving icon??? 
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Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
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#14556 - 06/25/01 08:20 PM
Re: 2 Samuel 13 ~*~A Desolate Woman?~*~
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Disciple
Registered: 09/29/99
Posts: 11360
Loc: Texas
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ummm.. I don't know what you are talkin about, he's been there for ages <img src="graemlins/wavey.gif" border="0" alt="  " /> 
_________________________
- Allen  - I don't need things, I need people - mb © 2002
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#14557 - 06/25/01 10:31 PM
Re: 2 Samuel 13 ~*~A Desolate Woman?~*~
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Queen
Disciple
Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 5620
Loc: Connecticut
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Well, Glory Be <img src="graemlins/wavey.gif" border="0" alt="  " /> <img src="graemlins/wavey.gif" border="0" alt="  " /> <img src="graemlins/wavey.gif" border="0" alt="  " /> <img src="graemlins/wavey.gif" border="0" alt="  " /> how EVER did I miss that Spam Can props on their way...ya'll are gonna roll!!! 
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Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
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#14559 - 02/13/03 02:42 PM
Re: 2 Samuel 13 ~*~A Desolate Woman?~*~
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 Disciple
Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 1152
Loc: Ignorantville, Georgia
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Do you remember this?
I was in a christian chat, just observing, as usual (I love to watch people throw out their views), when someone asks "Does anyone have any good ideas for a devotional?" And this story popped into my head... This is one of the stories that really struck me when I was a christian. So I went digging for my bible (Under my nightstand in a box taped shut. I don't remember doing that. I must've been angry) and was searching, and searching... and I couldn't find it. And then I came here knowing I posted it somewhere... Couldn't find it. Thought it might be in Real Life... or Wow... After ten minutes of searching, I found it here. And there I was reading my bible--not even paying attention to the chat anymore. I asked myself how on earth that happened. The person who wanted the devotional had already left.
Anyway... my bible has been set free... after--eh... 7 months?
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"Do you not understand?" -Jesus
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#14561 - 02/14/03 11:19 PM
Re: 2 Samuel 13 ~*~A Desolate Woman?~*~
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Disciple
Registered: 03/29/00
Posts: 6878
Loc: Kingwood (get it? KINGwood), T...
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_________________________
"I'm part of the fellowship of the unashamed. I have the Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast. I have stepped over the line. The decision has been made - I'm a disciple of HIS. www.Real-Men.net
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