Don't freak out...guys...I'm not asking that question myself...just starting a new one...cause I'm getting tired of hopping to page 7. Good morning Jim...I'm working on posting your questions...

Okay...I'm really curious to know the answers to these questions...everyone else please feel free to carry yours over if you have any. Or we can keep answering the other questions where they are...

To DA:
1. Why did you come to these forums? To have a good discussion? To meet a friend....?

2. What did you expect?

3. Did you get what you expected?

4. Have you ever been to a forum where you had a really good discussion? What was so good about it? Did you learn anything?

5. I had asked you before what you meant when you said that you didn't know how long you would last in these forums...you told me that you meant you didn't know how long it would take for people to yell at you...Have you REALLY been to a forum where people yelled at you???

Oh...and if your answer is yes to that last one...Please give an example...I really would like to know how to "yell" in the forums...

Mrning Michelle!

------------------
Amber the almighty coffee maker

Wow! Up early this morning, are we amber???

Well, i woke up with nasal congestion and I started thinking about alot of stuff so i couldn't go back to sleep

sorry...hope ya feel better. I gotta get to work...

Here are my answers to
1. Why did you come to these forums? To have a good discussion? To meet a friend....?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Basically to see how long I would last, and to see how open minded you "religious folk" really are...

2. What did you expect?
>>>>>>>>>>frankly to be "drummmed" out of the forums...you have all been great though!

3. Did you get what you expected?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>yes and no...expected a good discussion (for a while) and I got that, but then thought I would be asked to leave...haven't had that!

4. Have you ever been to a forum where you had a really good discussion? What was so good about it? Did you learn anything?
>>>>>>>>>>>no...not into the forum or chat thing...I stuck my head in here to see what would happen...unfortunately, I had some "pre-conceptions" about religious people...I won't call them "stereo-types" because a couple of they guys I work with (good friends) are born again...but overall, I thought most religious people were pushy, closed minded people...that perception is changing, due to this forum...although my core non-belief is not...

5. I had asked you before what you meant when you said that you didn't know how long you would last in these forums...you told me that you meant you didn't know how long it would take for people to yell at you...Have you REALLY been to a forum where people yelled at you???
>>>>>>>>>not at me, but others...rude to say the least.

Oh...and if your answer is yes to that last one...Please give an example...I really would like to know how to "yell" in the forums...
>>>>>>>>>basically it is simply typing in all capitols...like this:
HEY THAT IS WRONG GET OUT OF HERE YOU GEEK!!!!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!!!

That represents yelling...and it is somewhat annoying just looking at is, so it fits into the "yelling" mode.

I'll have some questions later this evening...

PS: I am changing my "signature"...I'll suprise you!

Jim

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Satan Lives...God Sucks

I posted this in the "How are U" thread...I will also post it here. I call it: "My summation in prose"...

I am a non-believer…there is no god for me,
You speak of his love and miracles, these I do not see,
I do not feel his presence, his guidance, nor his love,
I look inside for guidance, not below me, nor above,

Day after day I see them, the preacher bedecked in white,
Reading loud their sermon, exulting their god’s might,
Calling to their followers, “rise up! We must fight!”
And always I think to myself…who makes him wrong or right?

Hundreds of religions, a brood, a sect, a cult…
With all of the them a preacher, “ours is the god”, they exult
“Do not listen to the other man, his is not the way”
“Follow me disciples, or be convicted on judgement day”

But who is the judge appointed? Who sits in the judge’s seat?
For me there is no appointed one…St Peter, I’ll never meet…
I worry not about my crimes, when I die…rich or poor,
There is no judgement day for me, just and ending, nothing more

Am I wrong for my beliefs, my thoughts and words and needs?
If I fulfill my goals and dreams, who dares to question my deeds??
If I value life and love, if at your table I dine…
Whos to say that I am wrong, the mistakes will all be mine…

Many do not understand me, my outlook, nor my life,
Mine is a life of happiness, of problems, love, and strife,
And though we do not agree on god, friends we still can be,
I know I can love all of you…if only you can love me…

That, in the preverbial "nut-shell" sums me up...thoughts?

(Yes, I am the original author...)

Jim

------------------
Confirmed Non-Believer
Captain of my Soul...
Master of my Ship...

WOW! I got alot to say to that...(surprise)! I'll post later when the baby is asleep. I need to spend some time with her. ps Thank you for changing your signature...sorta At least I knew you really didn't believe the other one.. (and at least in the other one, you capitalized God...)
YOU CRAZY GEEK!!!!!!!

Okay...I've had a bazillion things running through my mind all night, and I'm gonna try really hard to focus here and put them into words that everyone can follow...I can be a little hard to follow sometimes if ya haven't noticed...

First of all, I would just like to say that I am glad that we did not meet your expectations. And your comment about your perception of us "religious folk" as you insist on calling us changing is encouraging. Also, I dont know if I can speak for everyone, but I think I can speak for most of us when I say that we CAN love you and we DO.

Now...to get started:

I'm going to adress one comment that you've made several times(maybe not necessarily in the same words) since our discussion began. You question--and rightfully so--WHICH ONE is the right one? I won't go into quoting scripture right now. I am going from what I know and have experienced in my life personally. I wish I knew more about other faiths so that I could comment on thier nature (such as Muslims Bhuddists...again sorry for my poor spelling skills). But if I percieve what I have read about them right, it is more than belief to them, it is a culture. Something that is forced on them from birth without the option to accept or refuse...I could be wrong, but for some reason that is the perception that I have. Religions--even in the Christian faith--are much the same (most of them). A series of rituals--a learned way of life. Christianity, however is a totaly different matter. I want you to understand that. Not trying to change you mind...that may or may not come later. I've allready told you how I feel about that...but anyway, I just want you to understand CHRISTIANS. To be a Christian means to be and strive to be Christ like. In order to be like someone simply in behavioral patterns, it is not really necessary to know them personally. Sometimes by just studying someone--say if I were to buy all kinds of books and biographies and documentaries and videos of, um....Marylin Monroe, I could probably study hard enough and act like her, talk like her, with a dye job some falsies and a whole bunch of make up and a new wardrobe dress like her...you get the point. But in order to think like her, feel the way she feels, understand why she does some of the things she does, I would have to know her personally. I would have to spend time talking to her, LISTENING to her and just simply being around her. I think you know where I'm going here...Its the same thing with Christianity. Religion--I'm not bashing it, but some of them are like this--is a lot of knowledge. Head fulls of knowledge on how to do this and that...what to look like, how to act...so on. Christianity is a personal walk/relationship with God. Which I know you can't completely understand because you don't have one...(yet?????? can't blame me for hoping) But that's where I'm coming from. I know Him personally...therefore I am/continue to strive to be like Him. Maybe that is the reason why your encounter here is different than your preconcieved notions of religious folk. Cause most of us here are not religious folk. We're Christians. Gonna post this and type some more...

Okay...now just some stuff to think about:

Something seen on a bumper-sticker: "There may or may not be a God. In case there IS ONE, wouldn't you rather spend eternity WITH Him?"

I took that to mean this:
Maybe there is no God. Maybe after we die, this is it. Over. Finished. But maybe He does exist. And if so, then what He says is probably true. You're either for Him or you're against Him. And I would hate to be against Him when it comes time for eternity to roll around...do you really want to take the chance? (not asking you, just saying..that's what I took it to mean)

You see Jim, you really--in all fairness can't say with surety that you will NEVER believe in God. How can I say that for sure? I see it this way...trust me, I've been thinking about this for days...

Okay...let me do another analogy. It doesn't apply to the situation as well as I would like, but it's the best that I can do:

Lets say I have never tasted squash. It sounds like something that I wouldn't want to try not to mention the way it looks. But you love it, and you tell me that it tastes better than anything you have ever eaten. I can listen to your description of the taste, but I cannot taste it unless I take a bite. So I cannot imagine the taste. You can describe it all you want and tell me how great it is all day long, but I can't really believe you, becase once my dad said that liver was the best thing he'd ever tasted, and so I ate it and got SICK! So I sit there, and that squash is just waiting for me to take a bite. If I take that step, maybe I will like it, and maybe I wont. But by chance I dont like it, what have I lost besides my appetite? But I still haven't tasted it becaues Im afraid I wont like it. You can't understand why I wont just take the chance. I'm missing out on something great here...You hear the word squash, and you can imagine the taste of it even if it is not in your mouth. I hear the word squash and all of my pre concieved notions pop into my head and nothing more. But now that you've tasted it, unless you go for a really long time without tasting it again, you are not likely to forget what it tastes like. I, on the other hand just don't know. Your condition cannot be reversed. You cannot unlearn the taste of squash. Mine can. All I have to do is taste. (Gotta post now...finish typing..you know the routine.)

Maybe that sounds corny to you and maybe not. I'm sure it does. I don't even know if you like squash. I don't. ANYWAY, my point:

I know God. I have experienced Him. He is unlike any experience I have ever had/will ever have. I have tried to duplicate that experience with many things: sex, alcohol, drugs, adrenaline rushes, relationships, pleasing people, trying to fill my head with knowledge, holding my breath, getting angry, laughing, loving, crying, screaming, dancing, spinning around in circles... NOTHING COMPARES. NOTHING. And you can ask anyone here. I'm sure most of them will agree. NOTHING COMPARES! It is not just a feeling you can create with your state of mind...not just a picture that you get when you close your eyes...HE is a presence that is so prevailent that once you experience HIM you CANNOT ever be the same. I know this. You do not. I cannot prove it to you, although I wish more than anything right now that I could. So from your perspective--I can say that I'm almost there--you just don't get it! You cannot imagine what the heck I'm talking about. Ever gotten drunk/high? That feeling you get when you exit a plane? Experiencing God BLOWS THAT AWAY. Ever gotten drunk/high and then jumped from a plane? (I hope not)... Experiencing God would BLOW THAT AWAY.

Well, I was typing and the words kept coming, but now they have stopped, so I will stop. I don't want to get ahead of myself (or God )
But I hope that now you have a little bit better of an undertanding of where IM coming from. It is out of Christ-like love that I feel so much compassion for you. It is out of child-like faith that I believe that some day...maybe not today, maybe not years from now...but someday, you will open your heart up to God as willingly as you open up your heart to us. You are a compassionate human being, Jim. You have a respect for life that is rare. You are intellegent and spirited. You are strong-willed. For those things and others, I do not feel pity. But for the fact that without all of that you think there is nothing, I do. What IF this isn't all there is? WHAT IF there is a God. What if there is an eternity?

Good night all.
IN HIS LOVE,
Michelle

If there is...well then I "screwed the preverbial pooch"...

...but there isn't...so I've nothing to worry about. Here are some questions for all of you. Why is eternal life so important? If your god is forgiving...would he not accept everyone into heaven (even a non-believer like me)? Who or what is Satan? Who created her? (or him...I guess...). What/where is hell? Why are some humans homosexual? Is it wrong to be homosexual? I believe the bible says it is...explain?

Jim

------------------
Confirmed Non-Believer
Captain of my Soul...
Master of my Ship...

I will try to answer some, Jim, BTW, great to have you back...



well...because it is better than the alternative, which we believe is eternal death, fire, damnation, that sorta thing..



hmmm... if your son gave his life to pay that debt for sin, would you be so haste to accept those who rejected the gift?



The bible says that satan was an archangel that fell out of favor with God. I prefer "she" myself..



The bible describes as a lake of fire, I think it is about 3 blocks from here, turn left @ the red light... I really don't know, it is always described as "down there", so maybe they mean Nederland...



I believe they choose to be homosexual, just like some choose to be strippers, drug addicts, murderers, coin salesmen, and robbers. I believe it is wrong to live a homosexual lifestyle. "Being homosexual" tends to make me think they didn't have the choice... The bible most assuredly condemns the homosexual lifestyle, but also teaches us to love the sinner, hate the sin.. after all, we all have sinned... I, for sure, won't be throwing the first rock...

------------------
Allen

To that I just wanna say: <FONT size="4">IS TOO!!!</FONT s>

Since Allen allready answered your questions, I'm just gonna make a few short comments.

About the eternal life question: (in the famous words of jesus_freak) "Life is short, eternity is long..." And "what if" you screw up? No second chances. Forever is a Looooong time!

About that whole forgiving issue: I liked the way Allen worded it "accept the gift" I have a whole 5 paragraph essay on that in "it is written" somewhere...but I will just shorten it and say that His forgiveness is extended to you. You just have to accept it. But since you don't believe in it.....

That brings us to our next question.
Hell. Yes...as Allen put it so eloquently...I don't think you can get there on a boat or a plane...but who would want to anyway? Honestly I don't exactly know where it is either. God forgot to give me the map. But I'll be sure to make it one of the first questions that I ask Him when I get to Heaven.

About homosexuality...Allen pretty much summed it up. But I will say this to rebuttle any arguement about whether it is a choice or not. I have known people who were homosexual (by birth so they thought) but realized that it was something that they could be delivered of because it is actally just a lifestyle...and now they are happily married to members of the opposite sex...and they enjoy themselves more than they did when the were in the lifestyle that they had been "trapped" in as they put it.

And saving the best question for last:
SHE??? Where the heck did ya think that up??? I thought we were friends!!! And Allen, I'm surprised at you!
But anyway, yes...a fallen angel. Good call Allen. On everything except for that whole female bash session you had going on there...
ps--- IS TOO IS TOO!!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!
---------------
The Typing FOOL

If homosexuality is a choice...why choose homosexuality? I too have homosexual (I'll call them gay to save typing) friends and in-laws...I love them as if they were straight...I support gays in the military...there is this whole homophobia thing out there that I cannot fathom...the same with race...It amazes me that people hate other people simply because of the color of their skin...idiocy to say the least...but I digress...I DO NOT believe being gay is a choice...why do people hide the fact they are gay? Why make that choice? What if they believe in god and (work with me here) it ISN'T a choice? Are they forever banished to the lake of fire...? As for god giving his son for our sins...I would be PISSED!! Forget this "accept me" stuff...I would implement IMMEDIATE banishement to that lake...without the "lake of fire" speed boat, and fire capable water skis...I know...he is forgiving to no end...

I ask again...why are there so many religions and so many gods out there? Would your god do this on purpose...deliberately confuse his children to see if they follow the "true" god?? Who is right? The Christian? Catholic? Protestant? Baptist? Islamic? Hindu? Buddist? Wican? Pagan? Confucian? Baha'i? Jew? Shamanist? Asatru? Voduon? Taoist? Jainist? Unitarian? Sikhist? Shintoist?ATHIEST??? (You know my answer...)


------------------
Confirmed Non-Believer
Captain of my Soul...
Master of my Ship...

I saw you on line a second ago...still there, or did I miss you?

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the tYpInG FOOL

Well, wouldn't most of us?
Is there a question there???
I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying. Are you admitting that He is forgiving to no end? ( I know you really aren't, but that's what it sounds like...)
[b]

You know MY answer too...

About homosexuality...I cannot begin to explain why someone would choose it...I have never been in that situation (thank God ) But as Allen said: who am I to cast the first stone? I do BELIEVE that it is a choice as you believe that it is not. To me the right answer is wrong to you and visa versa. I hold my beliefs to be the ONE TRUE belief just as you hold yours in the same esteem. I do not condemn them for their choice of lifestyle. What right have I? I am not homophobic, nor am I prejudice (YOU CRAZY STUBBORN ATHIEST!!!!) If ya don't know that by now.....well, I guess you won't ever. The Bible says that we are not to hold judgement against anyone because God is the judge. Therefore if I were to judge the homosexual or the ATHIEST or the Bhuddist, I am just as guilty as not obeying God as they are. So what else can I do? Just love them as Jesus would. But I will explain in a minute why I believe that it is a choice.

NO!!!! Remember what I tried to get through your thick skull yesterday??? RELIGION is man-made. That is why there are so many of them. Man has taken liberties and conformed his belief to fit the culture in which he is living. Christianity IS NOT A RELIGION. (Im not yelling...just speaking very loudly. ) There are religions within Christianity. And they all have made their own rules to fit what they believe to be true. It all boils down to ONE truth. There is one true GOD. Self proclaimed gods, man made gods, elected gods....they are not, cannot, and do not even stand in the same category. And you either believe in Him or you dont.

------------------
the tYpInG FOOL

First of all, let's go back to the first post I ever posted to you. "even satan believes in God." Not at all am I comparing homosexuals to satan. What Im saying is that believing is not enough. You have to repent and obey. And if there wasn't a choice, then God would not condemn it. You said it yourself..."he is forgiving". And He is merciful. Possibly they are tempted to try the homosexual lifestyle. But God does not tempt. That comes from satan...and yes, sometimes God allows us to be tempted in order to see if we will remain faithful to Him. It goes back to the choice thing and that whole cop out thing again. I am tempted on a daily basis to do things that I know God condemns. Does that mean that I do them? No. I value His rules. And if He says that homosexuality is wrong...