Amber, I used to glance at your signature and think it said all night coffee maker...

Clarification, please... Do you mean that it IS just to make you feel better, but it works best if you don't know that?
Is any part of it really necessary?
Seems strange that a lot of what is supposed to relieve guilt, instead often increases it. If you don't do this then you are a bad person and haven't really repented... etc.

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I have said this before...I don't pretend to understand all different religions...and alot of that has to do with what religion you are. I am Christian, that is that. And I go by the verse I quoted before in an earlier post that (paraphrased) says that there is only one way to Heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ and the blood that he shed for the remission of our sins. Yes, it may make people feel better to talk about it to a priest or to do pennace, but it is not necessary.

I have to laugh at what you said about my signature . When I first typed it I forgot to put the y at the end of almighty so that's probably why it looked like that. ok, back to topic. No, it isn't just a way to make yourself feel better. What I meant by that is many people use that as a way to make themselves feel better for what their doing. They may go to confession but still keep on sinning because they figure they can get pardoned for those sins with the Hail mary's, pilgrimages, etc. and that relieves the guilt. I mean this in reference to those who don't have any devout beliefs, or religion, or maybe those who just claim they do without sincerity. Do you see what I mean? I wish I could talk to you in person because Im much better at explaining things that way . As far as the baptism, it is a physical representation of repentace, but It's not something you have to do everytime you want to be cleansed of guilt. if that were the case, all of use would be getting dunked in water everyday . You can be baptized more than once, but It isn't something you have to do all the time. Like I said it's also a public announcment proclaiming you faith. Are any of them necessary? No, you don't have to go to confessions, recieve hail marys, etc. Baptisms are not necessary, but they are standard and usually most people are baptized when they tell people that they have accepted Christ.It's exciting for them and everyone around them. The baptism is like sealing the deal. .."here I am, I want everyone to know that I have put my faith in God and Jesus Christ." I use to go to a Baptist church, so I know these things . Basically what I saying is that they aren't necessary for repentance, but they are just part of different beliefs. But when it all comes down to it, God the Father is the one you should always turn to for anything, whether its repentance or just to talk .

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Amber the almighty coffee maker

hmmm - ok, well then explain Acts 2:37-38:


there are churches ( I am thinking UPC right now) who say that you must be baptized (& in Jesus' name, to boot) or you really aren't "saved". What do you think about that?

I realize this is kinda off-topic, but does fit in with the immediate discussion.

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- David
- http://www.truckwerks.com/

What do you get if you go in my pockets and take out both pennies?... My two cents...

well here is my two cents on the issues discussed...

Acts2:37-38

quote:
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37
When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"
38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
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It says that they were cut to the heart. What Peter was telling them was if you are "trully" sorry or "cut to the heart" then repent and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ.

We all know that there are times in our lives when we are trully sorry for something and then there are times when we are just sorry we were caught. Can I get an AMEN!!

Yes there are those who will go to confession because it looks good socially or they will get baptised in order to parade to their friends that they are a good churcher. And this will continue to happen, unfortunately, until the end of time. BUT, that's not our concern-- that's between them and God!!

We need to love them in spite of what we believe or not about their scincerity because we do not know exactly what is going on in their hearts...only God knows. The Bible tells us that they (those who do it for show) have already received their reward on earth. Meaning that if they are doing it to let people see them then that's all they get. If you look at it that way it kinda makes you feel sorry for them because they are missing the true reward which is the glory God gives them in Heaven.

I guess what I mean is this... Let them walk thier own walk and concentrate on your own. If you have done something that you know has displeased God then go to Him in secret and tell Him with a true heart--not just to hear yourself sound good to yourself--but really humbly and ask for His forgiveness.

After that depending on your walk... determine how far you strayed from Him or more importantly how much more you want to be held accountable and from that you can decide wether or not to be baptised. Baptism is simply the death of the old and the rebirth of the new.

Just something to think about...Christ who never sinned first got baptised before He started His ministry.

Just be real to that which you feel you owe God and do not worry about others and if they are doing it to feel good or to excuse their own living...THAT'S BETWEEN THEM AND GOD!

innerdawg


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<FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by whit-Dawg on 06-08-2000 @ ]</font>

Well said!

Whoah, wait, slow down.... either it's turning into shop talk, or I'm just slow.
I want to understand this baptism point that David brought up, but I think I'm confused on what everyone else is saying about it. I know this is can't be it, but let me share what I'm seeing in my muddled brain so maybe you will see my misunderstanding and explain it in English... or Spanish for that matter.

Yikes! Hafta go... Just hang on to that thought, I'll come back for more tonight...

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OK, well maybe I was wrong about the baptism thing. I was going with my notion that it wasn't necessary cause that's how i've honestly thought. next time I'll make sure to back up what Im saying . thank you David for pointing that out.

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Amber the almighty coffee maker

OK, here's the deal... it has to be one way or the other doesn't it?
Sorry whit-dawg, but I have to pick on you because I had the most problem seeing your position clearly...






Was Peter speaking from God? He said for the forgiveness of sins, don't we all need that?
He said Repent and be baptised -- was half of that sentence a command and the other half an option?

I can understand that some things may have been tradition, but how do you decide which was which? Do you obey all the commands in the New Testament or just do whichever you feel like?

Sorry dawg, don't mean to pick on you personally, I just want to understand how you know what is true and what is made up.

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First I want to say to you, Nobody, that you have the beginnings of the right attitude at least. You will never be finished finding truth, and I hope you never stop finding more.
One of the most important things I have learned is that you should not trust ANY human being, because we all are wrong sometimes. Don't trust your own feelings, because they can change every minute and can be manipulated. Your feelings and other people can help, but none of us are absolute.
How do you know? Trust God. He is the only one who is always right. And He has given clear instructions for everything we need. You are right, it doesn't make sense to pick and choose small parts of the Bible to obey. Either it is God's word or it isn't. If it is, obey every command given to Christians (this assumes you know the difference between the Old and New Testaments, that's another study). If it isn't, then it is all optional. You just have to figure out who the Master is, then surrender your will to that Master. I'll give you a hint -- no man on earth today is the Master.
Dawg is right about the need for sincerity, God knows the difference.
Don't take my word for it, take His Word.

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And if you ever DO decide to trust the Bible as God's truth, then here is an interesting way to study salvation.
The first is long, but worthwhile -- find every command in the New Testament related to salvation. Here are a few to start with:

Mark 16:16 -- believe and be baptised...
Do you really have to believe?

Acts 2:38 -- repent and be baptised...
Do you really have to repent?

Romans 6:2-4 -- die to sin and be baptised...
Do you really have to die to sin?

Romans 10:9 -- confess with your mouth...believe with your heart..
Do you have to both confess and believe? Does this verse mean you don't have to repent?

I Corinthians 12:13 -- by one Spirit we were all baptised...
Do we have to have the one Spirit?

Galatians 3:26-27 -- sons of God through faith... baptised into Christ...
Do you have to have faith?

I Peter 3:21 -- baptism now saves you...an appeal to God for a good conscience...
What is a good conscience if not one that is free from guilt?

A shorter but equally interesting study is to go through Acts and find every example of a conversion, and notice what took place each time.

Romans chapters 5 and 6 is not for the faint of heart, but it is a detailed religious treatise on sin and grace. Save that one for last and get plenty of sleep first.

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That's a lot of information to digest...
I think I'm going to take my time going over what I have so far before I ask any more questions.
Feel free to add more, meanwhile I'm going to just read for a while. Maybe I'll get to all those verses, and review everything that has been said in this and other topics.
Thanks to everyone, from Nobody...

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Nobody, no offense taken... Again these are only my thoughts and who am I?... I'm just a man walking a walk too.

But, here's how I look at it. When I was baptised in Pensicola FL, I made a public declaration that I was repenting (with a scincere heart) for my past transgressions. In other words, I realized that the life I was living was not for God and I wanted to give Him everything. After that, unfortunately I still sin everyday. But, it doesn't mean that my life has gone back to the old Dawg I was.

I now live everyday in pursuit of the life He has chosen for me-- the life the "new Dawg" proclaimed he would strive for when I came out of the water that day at the beach. I live under the grace that He gives me because without His grace I have nothing. This grace is given because He knows that I will mess up everyday...yet I still strive to live the life worthy to be called His own.

Baptised everytime... I don't know. But, if I was to be baptised everytime I messed up, I would spend my whole life wet instead of proclaiming His Name.

Just a thought.

innerdawg


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Nobody, you are on the right track. Studying the scriptures are the best thing you can do to answer questions you may have. Reading individual verses about a topic are good, but also reading whole books in the bible is a really good thing to do. You get a broader sense of what God is wanting to say to us.


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Amen! The more Bible the better, sometimes it is hard to understand (and easy to misinterpret) without getting the whole picture first. Like I said, if you are going to believe it, you have to believe it all.

Better yet, when you give your life to God He gives you His Spirit, and the Spirit helps you understand the scripture, so if you REALLY want to understand...

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<FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Nabi' on 06-11-2000 @ ]</font>