Oh, thank you for your great wisdom, mr licensed minister sir. That sure made me feel a lot better...
Nice try, try again. Anything good there has already been said, thanks for trying though, really.

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<FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Nobody on 06-07-2000 @ ]</font>

When I read this, it turned my stomach...you have apparently sat in judgement of me, saying, in effect, that since I don't believe in a god, I believe (in my mind) that I will suffer no consequences for my actions...that since I don't believe in god, I have no morals, values, or common sense...that since I don't believe in god, I can't consider life as precious...how wrong you are...this is why I hate religious fanatics...you sir, have blinded yourself with self-rightousness...and insulted me in the process. This will be my final post on this forum...I refuse to be insulted and ridiculed...how appropriate that a church leader and licensed minister has driven me from these forums, and reaffirmed my faith as a non-believer!!!!!!!! Good bye! Thank you foreverchanged...it has been fun.


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Satan Lives...God Sucks

DA... I don't think he meant to insult you... I know Joel, and that is not his intent... when he said "thinking as a moron", I believe he meant taking your position to the extreme and operating without morals...

Myself, the discussion has been interesting and good for me as well as the rest of us... we would hate to see you go, please continue if you are inclined...

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Allen

DA, just ignore those who speak like morons.
Some of us here DO respect you. I know your beliefs and I think you have good reasons for them, I just want to know what they are. Maybe I share them, who knows?

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True apologies for poor communication. I in no way meant to imply sir that you have no morals. I was absolutely taking an extreme position--not implying that you were in that position though. Again, poor communication.

I paraphrased a portion of the Bible where Paul is speaking of the grace of God (the whole speaking as a moron thing). He asks the question should he go on sinning so that grace can abound more. For the Bible says where sin abounds, there grace does much more abound.

Sir, I assure you in no way have I judged you. I poorly communicated the question of where do your morals come from? Are they situational ethics or what? I truly am sorry sir that I offended you. Please forgive me. I have enjoyed reading your posts and I pray that I haven't turned you off to discussion.
Regards,
Truly repentant one.



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Until He Returns, I remain... About souls,
crucified_with_christ

Jim,
If you're still out there, I have something I want to say to you. I can't say it now becauese I am at work and I don't have enough time. Please. As my friend....tell me that you will listen to what I have to say. I DO understand you. Remember? I already told you that. I just cannot fathom not knowing something that I've known my whole life. And I think you understand that. Having said that, I will sign off in hopes that you see this. Send me a private message if you like. I will do the same...PLEASE? As my friend?

Sincerely,
Michelle

I want to address this to every person who is on the Web-site...

This forum is here to allow us (as people trying to figure this thing called life out) a chance to share and show why we believe what we believe. We keep an open mind to what everyone says because as rational human beings it would be pointless to carry on a conversation without hearing and rationalizing the other points of view.

In doing this sometimes we will get those who want to "stick their chest out" on either side of an issue to prove their intelligence factor without thinking of what they are saying.

I have been reading and participating in this conversation for quite sometime now and I have to say (without sounding corny) that I was actually enjoying it due to the fact that NO ONE was belittleing the ideas or beliefs of anyone else. Now we might not see eye to eye on some issues... but isn't that what makes us human? As humans is their anyone of us who can say they know everything about everything?

DA, and those others who were offended by a statement made by a person posting the other day...I would apologize (if I could) for this other person's view, but as you know I can't. His views are his views. They are not mine or anybody elses. However, I can say this... go back and read all the other post that we as a group (including you) have written and ask yourself-- Is it the forum or is it the views of one?

This website is open to all people across the nation and from now till the end of time we will encounter both of the extremes of each others beliefs. I do know this though, the Christ that I know would never attack your person or make you feel less than loved. He would never treat those who are searching as stupid and He would definately look at those who "cause their brother's to stumble" and have a few choice words to say.

My point is this... we are all human and we ALL make mistakes. Christ said that even with all the knowledge in the world we are like a resounding gong if their is no love. Everyone on this site (Foreverchanged, NObody, Allen, DA, Forgiven_by_grace, Crusified with Christ, and anyone else I missed) have all proven either by thier jobs, their posts, or their time, that what we all share is love. Everything else is just us trying to figure out what it is that keeps us going.

Let's figure it out together!!

innerdawg



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Thank you Dawggy.

Okay...now my turn. I am adressing this to everyone, but mainly crucified...I feel as if I need to say this privately and publicly. I have an apology to make to you. When I read your post last night, I was angry and offended. I think that maybe I understand where Jim is coming from because I have spent the past several days trying to put myself in his shoes so to speak. So when I read it, somehow I knew exactly what his reaction would be. I was sick about it all night. I couldn't sleep well. I even contemplated erasing it, and that wouldn't have been fair to you. After all...this is an open forum, and we should all have a right to share what we are thinking. Having said that, however I will also say that since this IS an open forum, we should carefully choose our words before we say them. I didn't have to think hard. The words came. I know exactly where they came from, and I will leave it at that. I am not boasting or being prideful. I am just saying that for some reason, I have a STRONG burden for DA. I have been praying about it ever since the night that we started the discussion. I will admit, I was really on the offensive at first, but then God knocked me in the head and said "HEY MORON! What are you doing???" okay, so maybe He didn't call me a moron, but I felt like one...See, as strongly as we believe that God exists, DA believes just as strongly that He DOES NOT. It is what he knows. What he believes. And as much as I would like to understand his belief, I will never fully COMPREHEND it. But I am trying. Let this be a lesson to ALL of us. A million words spoken in ignorance (not at ALL saying that you are ignorant...just saying that you did not yet understand the situation...please don't take that the wrong way) are not as effective as one word spoken in LOVE. Once again, I am very sorry for my anger. I hope that you will forgive me for that. I assure you that I am no longer angry. God works everything out for His good. I accept that whatever happened happened for a reason. And I don't question your intentions. I DO understand that you were truely sincere. Everything just came out all wrong. (in this situation.) What works for one will not necessarily do any good in another. As whit-Dawg said, we are all here for the same reason. Let's ALL remember that.

In HIS Love,
Michelle

Wow,

Ok...I'm back...thanks to quite a few of you who enjoy our discussion, but especially due to foreverchanged...Crucified-with-christ (whom I will abbreviate: cwc)...I accept your apology (public and private), and thank you for it. Your words did rub me the wrong way, but I have pretty "thick skin" and will get over it. That being said, where were/are we? Let us begin again our spirited (and respectful) discussion!

For cwc...I am a devout ATHIEST...not agnostic...I have never, nor will I ever, believe in any god/higher being...

Again...thanks to all of you for accepting an athiest into your cyber-lives...I look forward to (as innderdawg put it so well) figuring it out together!

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Satan Lives...God Sucks

Glad to have you back Jim...

Welcome back, not just from Nobody
Yes, like you said, where were we? Are there any questions pending? If so they should probably be repeated since we have had a minor break in our chain here. If not, somebody step up and give us a new one.
I'd hate for nobody to grab the initiative and run with it...

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Thank you everyone for accepting my apology... especially DA and Foreverchanged.

Devil's Advocate, I really would like to try to understand your Atheist (sorry 'bout calling you an agnostic) belief.

If I remember one of your earlier posts--you do not belief in the afterlife, correct?

What do you think about people who have had medically documented deaths and they talk about they walked down a tunnel and saw a light at the end, etc.? I don't know anywhere in the Bible where it talks about a tunnel, but I was just curious to hear what you thought about this.

P.S. Thanks for having "tough skin"-- I unlike Jesus (my belief) am imperfect and mess up, but I especially commend you for hearing me again--thanks.

Nobody, what do you believe?

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Until He Returns, I remain... About souls,
crucified_with_christ

It's good to have everyone back

innerdawg



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Nobody cares what I think...

oh wait, sorry. it's late, I need sleep..

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Gee this has gotten tremendously long!!!

Hello every one! (Devils Advocate good to meet you! )

I just want to offer this tid-bit as partial proof of the existance of the miracles of the Old Testament. Wyatt Archeological Research Bottom line is ...they happened.

I will also be happy to open the evolution "can of worms" here if that is sought after. I would just like to say I am pleased at the way all of you have handeled this. I too often see this debate turn so sour in other places on the net.

God Bless you!
Steve

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When God is all you've got; God is all you need!

Men's Ministry Home!

Send me an email!
Slattier@JESUSaves.every1.net

movin it up for embie

Thanx, Michelle!

Looks like I have some catch up reading to do

This guy on Dave Letterman is really struggling to try to explain logically how in the world the 'big bang' theory actually could have happened. Dave is actually following through on asking the questions that most just shut up on and agree... where did the material that blew up come from? even if nothing produced something, that in itself is something, where did it come from? The guy just barely stopped short of saying some(thing/one) had to produce whatever we came from... go Dave

yee ha. that's so cool.