okay, maybe i worded that wrong. i am not a zealot. I am not trying to force my beliefs on you.. YOU ASKED....and why do you care if i respect you or not? And if you say that chrisianity is a cop out, is that not disrespectful in a way?
muhamid buda crishna....(i cant spell) all of them have one thing in common....and one thing that sets them apart from our GOD. THEY ARE DEAD.

I did not mean to infer YOU were a zeolot, nor do I care if you respect ME...EVERYONE should respect everyone's elses beliefs...additionally, I BELIEVE christianity is a cop out...you don't, I respect that...that is all I ask...mutual respect. I don't believe you are a zeolot...I simply meant that there are zeolots out there...that force their beliefs on others...you are not doing that...for which I am most appreciative.

------------------
Satan Lives...God Sucks

so according to what code of conduct should everyone respect everyone's beliefs?

And by saying GOD SUCKS, are you not disrespectin my GOD?

Another question...if as few words as possible what is the "stand318" and this ubiquitous "world domination" thing...sounds rather dictatorial to me...

------------------
Satan Lives...God Sucks

We STAND TOGETHER. The 318 is based on 2nd Corinthians 3:18...I'll let you look that one up...(trying to cut it short)... It is just a group of people who get together and love worship and learn more about God. We are friends and we got each other's back. We are there for each other. this is our websight. We meet on Mon. for service, we all go to different churches, different religions...we just all have that one thing in common. We love God. And the world domination, well, ya'd hafta ask allen. is that better? (lenghtwise?) oh yea...we want the world to know our Jesus...

okay...I will compile all of my questions for you to answer when you get back.

You mentioned the constitution. The constitution says that you have the right to your own religion (or lack thereof) Who says I have to respect it? You?

Oh....
4. Where does your conscience come from?

5. Are you even going to attempt to explain the fact that God has spoken to me through His word? (and may I add answered my questions to precicely...) If there is no God, then what the heck am I hearing?

6. How do you explain prophecy (people who see into the future)....not the phony ones. Who is speaking to them if there is no God and no Satan?

DA -- some insight into zealots, perhaps: They believe they are saving lives. Do you value human life (and if so why?) Well, they do, so they will do anything they can to do what they truly believe will help people. At least the good ones are like that, and I think forever is one of the good ones.
The bad ones are just on an ego trip and think that everyone should be like them.
I've been watching religious and non-religious people knock heads together for a long time, and they rarely accomplish anything because it is impossible to find anything that both sides accept as evidence.

Experiences are the main thing they use, like forever's stories, but I think it is possible for a person to want to believe something so badly that they fool themself. But I will never be satisfied with saying that some things can't be explained. Just because nobody has found the answer yet doesn't mean there isn't one. I will try to be the first to find it. The scientific method is a good tool sometimes, I make up an answer then test it by sharing it with other people and asking their thoughts.
Like my 'answers' when I first started posting -- you never told me what was wrong with them, only that they were excuses. I really want to hear what is wrong with them so I can improve or find something better.

------------------

PS DA if you want to see more about sin, take a peek at the topic "because everyone is someone" in this same section. I just got Forever to start it for me, but it may be good. For that topic we agreed to assume the existence of God so we don't repeat this discussion there. Take a look if you want.

------------------


<FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Nobody on 06-05-2000 @ ]</font>

:clears throat:
I can handle this one...
"Stand" as forever has said, is our fellowship of believers that meet to worship God and encourage/ pray for one another. The "318" is, as she has already refered to, based on II Corinthians 3:18:

This coincides with our "real people, in a real world, searching for a real God" motto/ slogan/ etc... Basically it says we are all just people on a path through life. You say that's all, but we say there is more to this life than living or dying, more than these eyes alone can see... we work to help each other along that path toward the mark, the higher calling, if you will. We do that by taking off our masks of pride (self-importance and self-righteousness), deceit, envy, etc., and by being "real" with each other. "Yes, I know where you are, because I am / have been there too..." that sort of thing...

The whole "world domination" thing... my title as "cruel dictator" is definitely all tongue in cheek, plus it just looks cool...

Everyone else, when DA speaks of cannibalism, I think what he is referring to is that (and I am definietly not a Catholic scholar) Catholics actually believe that when they partake of communion, the bread and wine are actually Jesus' blood and body, not just symbolic rituals... correct me if I am wrong, I have read that on another site when we were discussing the Roman Catholic Church...

------------------
Allen

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Okay, I cannot speak for Catholics, because I am not Catholic.

Okay, some more questions:
1. If we are just here and then we die, why the heck are we here? Are you trying to tell me that by some strange freak accident we all just evolved from whatever or just appeared and there is no one guiding us. We just die and go back to nothing? Explain. (if you don't mind)
And if we just evolved from whatever, where did "whatever" come from?

2.Does your wife believe in God?
(just curious...)

hi kevin...(sorry, a friend of mine's online & i gotta say hi.)

------------------
ribbit

Why do you think there has to be a reason we are here??? Are you so self involved and egotistical that you think you were created for a reason? What possible reason would your so called god have for making anything??? A cruel joke??? The universe is infinitely large...ever expanding with processes we cannot imagine. I believe we evolved not from an accident, but a "strange set of circumstances" how else could it happen. ARE YOU trying to say there is some omnipotent, sentient being that created all of this in 7 days!?!?!?!? Come on...where did god come from???? WHO MADE GOD??? No one is guiding us either...you stated we are all free to make our own choices...only by accepting god will we find true happiness...what kind of egotistical god are we talking about? Why does he have this need to be accepted? Why would he make people like that? Why not make a perfect society that thrives on love and happiness...sounds rather like a cruel joke than something created in his own image. He makes millions of people suffer just to see if they will accept him??? What a horrible being!!! He makes millions of others become subservient religious fanatics, forced to follow HIS way of doing everything, just so they may be accepted into some sort of afterlife??? Religion makes life seem like a simple test to see if you make it to a "heaven" after death...thus, life is simply preperation for death...and that is no life at all. I'm sorry, I cannot believe there is someone looking over me, guiding me, forcing me to accept him so that in death I may be "saved"...too cruel...too much of a waste of time...too much like a mad scientist's experiment. Indeed, judging by todays society and the problems that keep getting worse, the dissappearing rain forests, the ocean drying up, ect...it seems like an experiment gone wrong...and if this "god" is perfect, how could it have gone wrong?...unless he is indeed a cruel and mad scientist...and he planned it this way all along.

------------------
Satan Lives...God Sucks

OK, calm down, no need to get hostile...

Here we go, answers for the one with questions and questions for the one with answers. That way everyone gets what they want and Nobody gets stuck in the middle...

Which should I start with...? Let's go FILO...

DA - You of all people should know that you are not being forced to believe anything, because you say yourself that you have made a free choice not to believe. Would I even be asking questions if God were forcing me to believe?
I don't know about why God might do some things, but I know a little about love and relationships. I have been in love, and she chose not to love me. I wanted good things for her, and she didn't care. Which of us was being cruel? If God is telling us not to play in the street, maybe it's because He wants to help. If I get hit by a car, it's my own fault for not listening to His free advice.
Honestly, if you are going to make yourself responsible for your own actions, then you have to be responsible for the consequences too.

OK, enough on that side, here's a Forever question. You say you don't have all the answers, so I'll just see how many you have. I can understand why people suffer for their own bad choices, but don't you suffer too? God may let people who don't believe find their own way, but if you trust Him then why do you still have problems? They can't all be your fault, why doesn't your God help you?

There you go, one for each side. We'll see who gives a better answer...

------------------

God has the best answer of course, but I'm at work right now so I'll post later...hang on to your hats, the best things come to those who wait!!

Great! Then I must be getting the best all the time. Just don't make us wait Forever.

------------------

If Forever is egotistic I wish everyone had that kind of ego. She spends her time helping others instead of only serving self. She has a reason to value human life, like no other person has.
Man, I wish nobody had that kind of ego.

------------------

Ok i have to throw my 2 cents in. When you suffer or go through a hardship, don't you come out a stronger person? Don't you feel like you have won another battle? well it is the same way with God. Christains endure harships because it makes their faith in God even stronger. Even Christains say "why God, why me?" but they trust him that their circumstance is for a reason. and the reason is to either make us see what we are doing wrong or to make us stronger in our faith. I know this first hand, I am currently going througha situation I could have prevented if I had listened to God instead of doing my own thing. It is difficult for me, but I had been falling away from God and I am suffering because of the decisions I made. And this is going back to the experiece thing you mentioned, but I know that God has forgiven me for what I did and now I must persevere. I definitely can say that I will become a stronger person afterwards and that I need to listen to God when he's spekaing to me. Does that clarify it some?

------------------
Amber the almight coffee maker

fOrGiVeN, did you say you need to listen to God when He is spanking you...?
Anyway, don't you suffer for other people's choices too? Is that fair? Isn't there a better way to become strong? I wouldn't NEED to be strong if I didn't have problems.

------------------

ooppss! I meant speaking to you. Yes we all suffer from other people's choices, and no its not fair but are you just going to sit back and whine about it? No, your going to move on. If you don't have any problems, than Im truly glad you don't, but when you do have problems, have you ever thought that you will know better next time, or that you can handle the next thing that comes along because you have suffered a hardship and you know what its like? As far as finding other ways to become strong, I don't know of any other way. you can't become a stronger person, as I see it, unless you have been through circumstances or situations that have needed you to either be strong for another person or for yourself. if you have no problems, how do you become a stronger person without them? Like I said in the earlier post, when you suffer and you make it through, don't you feel like you've won a battle or triumphed over an obstacle? My favorite verses are 2 Cor. 12:9-10. It talks about suffering through hardships because its makes you a stronger person. See if those verses help.

------------------
Amber the almight coffee maker