hehe, your one year response almost topped my 2 year response I remember that Dave show tho, thanks for the bump

bumping for a friend. Read this one first. These should keep you busy for a while.

I am too lazy to read the whole string but God will make himself known to you. All you have to do is ask him to. He loves that simple challenge. It starts a long journey/relationship that never gets old. Take it from a former heathen.

As a current heathen why would I ask something from someone in whom I don't believe?

Test all things, DA.

Just like you can't say you don't like broccoli when you haven't tasted it.

Just take a taste, see what happens.

Brocolli is good with cheese on it, tho I like it steamed as well

I would think as a devil's advocate you'd be used to investigating both sides - difficult to do if you don't take the first step I'm glad you are still coming around, good to see you writing again

I believe in brocolli...and cheese...I can see it, taste it, touch it...not the same with God.

I'm simply afraid that as a non-believe how could I even investigate God's side? Isn't belief one factor in being accepted by God? How then, if I don't believe, could I even hope to be accepted?

Allen, not sure if I'm investigating both sides...its not a good vs. evil question for me (I know it is for many here and I respect that)...I'm not sure if I'm investigating anything...just asking questions.

I guess the bottom line for this tread is how can I accept into my life something I don't believe in? If you ask me simply to believe...it won't happen...and if God can't take me under his wing as a non-believer...what chance have I...it appears to be the classic catch-22...

Hey DA...you're already accepted in God's eyes. The issue is/was never His. He created us so we would have a fellowship with Him. You are never not accepted, you are desired.

God is. We have to make our way to Him. He draws us. I think by asking the questions you do, He is drawing you. None of us "believed" without somehow "seeing" "tasting" what He has to offer. It might not be in the physical sense, but evidenced in a real way. He drew us and He showed us things that validated that He is. From that belief grows. And don't think there aren't times in a believer's life where they wonder if He is really out there. Struggles and trials lead to that crisis of faith. But it's in those times that we must rely on the promises He made in His Word. There have been many times in my life where I had to cling to thsoe promises. He has always proven Himself faithful and He always walked me though. You just have to open yourself up and tell God to reveal Himself to you. Let Him take it from there. It takes alot of courage to allow yourself to be vulnerable, but I am certain that He will make Himself known to you.

Interesting...if he is drawing me toward Him...I guess I'll end up a believer...but I doubt it.

I think I'm just trying to understand all of you good people and your beliefs...and religious beliefs in general...the fact that some people can believe (most of you) and some don't (me and others)...is the only time the truth will come out is after our deaths? I looked back through this tread and everyone gave some good answers but I still don't believe...so, assuming I will never believe (unless embie is right)...what happens to me? Hell? Oblivion? Outside heaven looking in?

I may be in the minority here, but I will tell you what I think...it's very profound...

I don't know.

I do believe the Word of God and the bible tells us that if we don't accept the gospel of Christ then we are destined for eternal separation from Him after death. That being said, I think there are some disclaimers:

1)Accepting the gospel means that it must have been presented to and understood by those doing the "accepting". If at that point the gospel is rejected, refer to the above...

2)Only God can see into the hearts of man and I leave judgement to Him. I am not sinless and I am not worthy to judge anyone.

3)I believe my God to be a loving God. We don't know what happens between man and God in that final moment of death. Just as the murderer was forgiven on the cross, so can one be saved in an instant.

In lieu of accepting Christ and enjoying His wonderous gift's during one's life, my personal hope is for # 3.

Wow Embie, I agree. Those 3 points are the best I have heard it put and I think you are dead on.

Now, for the Hell topic. God doesn't force us there when we die. The hell-bound choose it. Hell is the complete separation from God. If you chose it during life, you will in death. I know there is Bible somewhere supporting that statement but I can't remember off-hand.

I also know we don't choose God. He chooses us. No one can get to Jesus except him that is drawn by the Father. My pastor likes to call that the Star Trek tractor beam. You will feel this "what about God" thing and can't explain it. Thats the tractor beam. And as my friend Spock would say..."it's highly illogical." But, it is very real. Now to you DA...

from DA:
As a current heathen why would I ask something from someone in whom I don't believe?

How are you going to believe unless you get the chance to do so? Doesn't a scout have to go out and look for where he is told the enemy might be and find him before he can make a report? I may not be your commanding officer but I am asking you to go where I think this "god" may be and see if you can get a report. But, I am not the one who needs the report. You can pass it on to another in need. I know where this "god" is.

I know you don't know me from Jack or Steve or anyone else. But, do me a favor. Close and lock the door to your barrack and just SPEAK out and ask this "god" to make himself real to you. Ask him to give you something to believe. Our Yahweh will make himself known and believable. I promise.

You don't have to admit/tell/suggest you even tried this. Just be honest with yourself. Thats all I ask and that is what our Savior wants. He wants a relationship with YOU. It is amazing to me our God is everywhere but when I pray to him, he is nowhere but with me. And the same can go for you and anyone else reading this. He is with you and only you eventhough he is everywhere at once...... WOW!

bah I poured my soul out with the help of The Spirit and I am still a Pharisee...

This trying to shake a cruddy title is getting old but at least I'm getting publicity...Haha Psyche!

Boo still Pharisee. :-(

I smell a pharisee around here somewhere...sniff...sniff...phew,


If ya wanna get rid of the "Pharisee" try lowering your nose a few notches.

(she runs for cover to avoid the broccoli being flung at her!)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Waalyn:
Boo still Pharisee. :-( </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ha! And I...the Crazy Athiest, a Desciple!!

It's prophetic DA...

Hard to believe this discussion has been going on since 2000 (Jun)...6 years, in a little over a month...and all that is resolved is that fact that it is prophetic...happily so...but 'just' prophetic none the less...

**puts the broccoli back down on his plate and sighs**

OK, OK, I took your advice and lowered my nose. =) Now I am no longer a Pharisee anywhere. YaY.

DA, just keep asking questions. God won't let your questions go unanswered. The fact that you keep searching says alot.

YAY Waalyn...I have such good advice, heh?...LOL